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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Sunday Afternoon" - Red Raven test shoot.

Kenneth C Merrill said:
Am I to understand that the Red Dot Pattern does not occur at wider apertures?
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That is the consensus. This might have been something that Phil tested a while back when he and Christopher Probst got together for some early Weapon testing.
 
Ummm... I know this is a lot to ask, but can anyone that owns a Raven do a Lens flare test with multiple different lenses, one in the day and another during the night?

Is the red dots the only kind of lens flare?
 
Those red dots are typically called OLPF FLare or Sensor Flare. It's caused by light reflecting off and back onto the sensor between the sensor and OLPF or sensor and/or OLPF and the reare element of the lens. Pretty much every camera out there will exhibit this under the right conditions, which is typically a very bright light source (sun) and a very small aperture. It's not a lens flare... It's been discussed here off and on over the years, and on other camera forums as well. I've seen it on every digital camera I own at one point or another. It shows up differently on different camera and sensor designs. But yeah, seen it and/or can duplicate it on Alexa, Nikon, iPhone...
 
Nothing remedies this probelm as much as the skin tone highlight olpf. Standard olpf still gets it and low light even more so.
 
Yep. Everybody's answers here are dead on. This is a typical artifact when shooting hot point sources like the sun at smaller apertures. The artifact is most visible on the Low Light Optimized OLPF and Standard OLPF (which is built into Raven). The Skin Tone - Highlight OLPF combats the artifact with more agressive layers and coatings, but that also is why it isn't as good as the other two OLPFS in super low light conditions.

The short answer to how most professional DPs hand this is by shooting usually at or wider apertures than T5. Each lens may produce the artifact "sooner", but each design is unique.

The Motion Mount actually helps a lot with this, but that's not something Raven shooters can deploy.
 
Not sure what you shot this on, but I found that the STH OLPF was the only one that eliminated the dots on the Dragon. LLH and Standard they were still there in full force at high apertures.

Edit- just realized Phil said the exact same thing above:)
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Those red dots are typically called OLPF FLare or Sensor Flare. It's caused by light reflecting off and back onto the sensor between the sensor and OLPF or sensor and/or OLPF and the reare element of the lens. Pretty much every camera out there will exhibit this under the right conditions, which is typically a very bright light source (sun) and a very small aperture. It's not a lens flare... It's been discussed here off and on over the years, and on other camera forums as well. I've seen it on every digital camera I own at one point or another. It shows up differently on different camera and sensor designs. But yeah, seen it and/or can duplicate it on Alexa, Nikon, iPhone...
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Thank you for the very informative post. I feel I do have to mention that it's obnoxious here as it is on, say, a Blackmagic forum when people pull the whole "It can happen to any camera" card. I believe you, but realistically I've seen this artifacting several times with Dragon sensor footage, while I have never experienced it on any of Arri's or Canon's offerings--or heck, even Blackmagic (can't speak to other brands because I don't have the experience). It can probably be replicated on most cameras, but the fact is that the Dragon is far more sensitive (depending on your OLPF) to this issue than most cameras. As someone who frequently shoots straight into things like the sun, this is discouraging to hear, since the Raven is stuck with the standard OLPF... Perhaps I will try to get my hands on a Raven before mine is allocated and do some testing--as I think the sensor reflection issue can ruin a perfectly good sun flare.
 
David Battistella said:
I think I will add a link to this thread to the New to RED Sticky.

The responses here are pretty dead on.

Also, just as an aside, why pull a Video from another thread to create this thread when you could have asked about this directly in the thread where the video was originally posted?
To me, not really cool.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?145145-quot-Sunday-Afternoon-quot-Red-Raven-test-shoot


David
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Sorry David! I didn't see the other thread. I saw the video on Facebook and didn't know it was being discussed here--though I should have guessed :)
On the other side of things, though, maybe it was better to create a new thread to discuss the issue so that I wouldn't derail the general comments on his video with a whole different topic. Just food for thought.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Those red dots are typically called OLPF FLare or Sensor Flare. It's caused by light reflecting off and back onto the sensor between the sensor and OLPF or sensor and/or OLPF and the reare element of the lens. Pretty much every camera out there will exhibit this under the right conditions, which is typically a very bright light source (sun) and a very small aperture. It's not a lens flare... It's been discussed here off and on over the years, and on other camera forums as well. I've seen it on every digital camera I own at one point or another. It shows up differently on different camera and sensor designs. But yeah, seen it and/or can duplicate it on Alexa, Nikon, iPhone...
Click to expand...

I think it's the snow ball effect. There's a discussion about something that looks weird and people join in and now the "red dots" is a "thing". If that first post ever about the red dots hadn't occured back when everyone was bashing noise and OLPF problems, we would probably not talk about the red dots this much. Then again, if not we wouldn't have gotten interchangable OLPFs... :tongue_smilie:
 
Kenneth C Merrill said:
Sorry David! I didn't see the other thread. I saw the video on Facebook and didn't know it was being discussed here--though I should have guessed :)
On the other side of things, though, maybe it was better to create a new thread to discuss the issue so that I wouldn't derail the general comments on his video with a whole different topic. Just food for thought.
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They came within about 30 minutes of each other and to be fair to the OP, the comments have been merged into one thread.

It could have been taken as though you were calling out another user, which is clear was not your intent, and there have been many threads on this topic.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?93484-Red-dot-pattern-on-sun-flare

http://www.reduser.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-72599.html

http://www.reduser.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-134353.html

http://www.reduser.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-119565.html

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?72599-Weird-Red-Dots-Anybody-know-what-this-is
 
Christoffer Glans said:
I think it's the snow ball effect. There's a discussion about something that looks weird and people join in and now the "red dots" is a "thing". If that first post ever about the red dots hadn't occured back when everyone was bashing noise and OLPF problems, we would probably not talk about the red dots this much. Then again, if not we wouldn't have gotten interchangable OLPFs... :tongue_smilie:
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Same thing happened with Gate flare.

David

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?69710-Gate-Flare-Flaregate
 
Hi Joe, loved it, very evocative, just captured beautifully those days of when your a child on the beach without a care in the world.

Hope to get my Raven shortly, assigned and paid for just awaiting delivery sometime soon.

What did you edit in! as fcpx and premier cannot read the files yet, as far as l know. Great music who was it.
 
Andrew Salter said:
Hi Joe, loved it, very evocative, just captured beautifully those days of when your a child on the beach without a care in the world.

Hope to get my Raven shortly, assigned and paid for just awaiting delivery sometime soon.

What did you edit in! as fcpx and premier cannot read the files yet, as far as l know. Great music who was it.
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Thanks Andrew, I transcoded in Red Cine to ProRes HQ with some minor grading done first in RCX. Cut it in Premiere CC.
 
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