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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Steven Soderberh’s State Of Cinema Talk

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Dan Hudgins said:
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I went to a film talk panel discussion once and someone on the panel talking as a distributor answered someone's question by saying "films get the distribution they deserve", and I think for the most part that is true.

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Sometimes I put myself in opposition to the view I favor and this sentence triggered one of those moments.

Playing the Devil's Advocate I would say to someone just breaking in to movie-making that "you gotta pay your dues... like a minor league baseball player. Yes we'll give you a nice bonus if you are good but it will take a few years under our control before you get a chance at the really big bucks."

Of course this doesn't address the disrespect the Studios are showing people like Soderbergh who not only have a track record, but universally recognized home-run hitting free agent status.


Dan Hudgins said:
If films in theaters have nothing to offer other than CG and 3D then at some point there will be even less reason for films to be shown in theaters.

You can't blame the audience for not coming, its the filmmaker's job to give them a reason, and if the film is good in some way word of mouth is most of what is required to get others to come see it, more so now with the internet to pass the word on about something unique and life changing.

It does not cost millions of dollars to get a good film shown, because the world will beat a path to the person that makes a better mouse trap. People who think otherwise should re-assess the value of their own works.
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Now, back to advocating for the angels (not the ball club... Pugh! on them!.) I totally agree with what Dan said here. I guess we could look at this stage (low budget movie-making) as being in the minor leagues, but that's where you get noticed. Get an audience behind you and the majors will call if that's your goal. If your goal is to make movies and make money, then what is now considered the minor leagues of movie-making is probably going to evolve as a good place to be.

And who knows, like the old American Football League became successful and caused the National Football League to negotiate a merger, so may the Indie movie companies of tomorrow become merger targets for struggling Studios.
 
I remember with fondness Arthur Knight, the film critic who taught a very poplar class at USC Cinema back in the early 70s. He always had interesting guest, they generally came from the various “Above-the-Line” members of the Hollywood Community at-that time. The kind of people that had books witting books about them; and some not. I thought about it because I recently saw the Movie (or Picture) Hitchcock, he was one of Arthurs guest; I remember Peter Bogdanovich was sitting in front of me with him was Sybil Sheppard. It was an interesting night with Hitchcock on his finest form.

In later year after getting out of the US Marine Corps, when I had my company in Los Angeles, we became friends till the end when he moved to Australia with his Costume Designer wife, her name escapes me. Arthur had cancer. He sure knew every body, and everyone had fond memories of him, may he “Rest In Peace”!

I learned more from that class then any one, SAVE for Lester Novarro’s (I’m not sure how to spell the name), which I did not understand at the time, and that’s the way it supposes to be! I remember we met at his shop on Cahuenga Boulevard. It was a class that you understood years later, in another country, in another time, when working on a film, it just came to you, like a light going-on, really.

I know that at the time he was teaching the class he was doing the story boards for Hitchcock “The Birds”. In the back of his shop was young “Douglas Trumble” toiling away for some project for Stanly Kubrick new film called “2001 A Space Odysseys” (which has yet to make a profit). He was trying work out the “Star Gate” sequence; eventually Kubrick took him to London. One of Lester's partners was Frank Capra Jr.; they were working a 360 degree lens that projected a round image all the way around.

I’m surprise I can remember that far back!

Humberto Rivera
 
paulherrin said:
yeah, we would all do well, when we're working, to answer the question, 'why are you telling me this?'
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Why, in part its about the subject of the thread and about comments I have heard from others that relate, maybe its hard to give a short reply on the complex subject of why some films do well and others do not, and how what is in films is impacted by the comerical process of studio film production.

Some might think that a good film is one that makes the most money over its cost.

Some might think that a good film is one that shows long after its initial run.

Some might think that there are good films that both don't make money or have any lasting play.

Some might think that audances can't recognise a good film.

What I see more and more is that at the multi-plex many of the seats are empty, even for newly opened films with an ad budget.

But when I go to the Castro that shows old movies, it can have a near sell out with little of no advertisment, they don't even list their shows in the local paper any longer yet people find their way there that night.

If you look at our local TV there are two stations that are showing old TV shows that are like 30 or 40 years old.

Its not impossable for studios to paint themselves into a corner with the trend away from well written stories to filmmaking by budgeted minions.

So, everyone can see what is happening, but is there anything anyone can do to get an audance back for films that don't cost more than starting filmmaker can ever have in reach.

If there will never be another Kubrick or Lean or Wise empowered with real control over the content of their works, and the "language of cinema" is displaced by the "code of video games" then a useful artfrom and joy in our lives will be forever lost, like the 35mm movie film that made the art form in the first place...

Like any other field those who might do the "best" work are not always those that get the opportunities. And if that includes the people that become the gate keepers.

When the censorship came in people tried to find ways around it and in some ways that make for more creative humor and craftsmanship to go over the heads of the censors while still getting through to the members of the audance that could read between the lines. Maybe it would be good if those that are being stimied by dullards would try a little harder to breath some life into the scripts and direction and give CPR to the lifeless productions being marketed with high cost ad budgets, since the audance may be fooled into seeing gunk once, twice, maybe fifty times, but if the experence of seeing movies keeps dwindling in its ability to be a memorable part of their life, they may wise up and stop going althougher, and that will be bad for everyone big or small...
 
Thank Dan Hudgins, well said, especially the part; ”Some might think that a good film is one that makes the most money over its cost. Some might think that a good film is one that shows long after its initial run. Some might think that there are good films that either don’t make money or have any lasting play. Some might think that audiences can't recognize a good film.” Dan Hudgins.

I THINK THAT NO-ONE KNOWS THAT, “a good film” is something that’s COMPLETED in the minds of an AUDIENCE, some have said; it felt good; it left an absolute truth within ourselves; it took-us to another place far, far away in the past, present or future; it was well acted; it had very fast cuts and camera moves; it did not have much camera moves; it was well promoted and highly anticipated by the audiences, and was very popular; or maybe not, it was screen in small art house; it might not have been as popular as “Singing In The Rain” when it was FIRST SCREENED in the 50s, but it now is a; GREAT FILM; that can happen anywhere on “The Planet Earth” and we may not know about it; the question if both interesting and ambiguous at the same time. I can’t resist to-say; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

That’s the answer were all looking for, from the Studios to the smallest Producer/Directors, while satisfying our need to communicate to the world whatever we need to say. It’s the dilemma that has hunted Hollywood forever and ever! You’re absolute right in thinking; “Why, in part it’s about the subject of the thread and about comments I have heard from others that relate, maybe it’s hard to give a short reply on the COMPLEX SUBJECT of why some films do well and others do not, and how what is in films is impacted by the commercial process of studio film production.” Dan Hudgins.

I remember 20 years back someone that worked with me in China could not get into USC Cinema, so I gave him some advice on how to-do-it, he got in, the first thing he noticed was the high number of foreign students. I said is a global business! He eventually graduated and went to work for Paramount Pictures, so he’s there making decisions that affect the growing “World Wide Markets” for film; maybe he made some contacts with foreign students while at USC Cinema that now serve him well.

Humberto Rivera
 
I was thinking out loud, how can we make the film that we want, but at the same time find a Distributor, or do-it our self’s. I’m ASSUMING a few things; we need a realistic budget, say maybe $10,000,000.00. Remember “Everybody and Everything” in the Film Business wants to be paid up-front, or by the weeks, and don’t forget the Union Payments for which there is a software, and it will be, what it will be.

You’ll need a Script, a Budgeting Software, a Production Breakdown Software, and an artist to draw anything from a full storyboard to a few drawing. You need to know what you’re going to do (Script), how much it’s going to cost (Budget), when and how long is going to take (Production Break Down), what some or the whole film is going to look like (Storyboard) all to convince the investor that your movie is the one they should go with.

You will probably need a “Completion Bond” because it not worth anything if you don’t finish-it. So let’s say you set out to do a film that will be completed, it will have a 10M budget. So the next question is how good is-it going to be, there is NO BOND for that.

That’s the question, what can you say, do, or conjure to make someone put-up-the cash for a movie, in reality to give you the “TRUST” that you’re going to succeed. You’ll definitely need to consider the International Market. You can sell territories, but that takes the expense of going to “International Markets”.

There are a few questionable things, I’M NOT ADVOCATING THAT YOU DO THIS, but they’ve been tried before. Doing a movie with Three Half of the budget. In order to close the deal, you’ll need a “High Net Worth Individual” that will give you a ‘checkable’ “Letter of Intent” that may never be meant to be cashed, but it does need to be checked! Then you might be able to get the second and third half from say; “International Distributors”. Maybe you take two of the Letters to a Bank that’s accustomed to finance films (anywhere in the World), and you may DISCOUNT them, say 90% or 85%, providing you have a “Completion Bond” for the Film you want to-do. Again, I’M NOT SUGGESTING OR ADVOCATING DOING THIS; I’M JUST DESCRIBING SOMETHING THAT MAY HAVE BEEN DONE BEFORE.


You can wait for ODEMAX to materialize. You can discuss it with your money people; there are many other ways to exploit ODEMAX you have to wait till all the facts are out! You can sell your soul to the Company Store (Studio), if they would take you?

Other than a “Rich Uncle”, it’s really “Hard”, no question about it! But somehow new Films continue to pour out! To that is say; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”! It’s possible that you may have $7M to $8M to actually pay for everything, if you start with $10M.

Humberto Rivera
 
ACCORDING TO STEVEN SODERBERGH; “In 2003, 455 films were released. 275 of those were independent, 180 were studio films. LAST YEAR 677 FILMS WERE RELEASED. So you’re not imagining things, there are a lot of movies that open every weekend. 549 OF THOSE WERE INDEPENDENT, 128 were studio films. So, a 100% increase in independent films, and a 28% drop in studio films, and yet, ten years ago: Studio market share 69%, last year 76%. You’ve got fewer studio movies now taking up a bigger piece of the pie and you’ve got twice as many independent films scrambling for a smaller piece of the pie. That’s hard. That’s really hard.” Steven Soderbergh!

So where did the 549 Independent Films come from, where did they go? That’s more than one a day 24/7. Well they made the rounds around the various Film Festivals, some were bought at the Festival’s Auctions, and the rest only God knows. I’m sure next year will be equally as good for Distributors, maybe better!

Humberto Rivera
 
You want to take it one step further... according to Ted Hope, Exec Director of San Francisco Film Society and a veteran indie film producer, about 50,000 feature length films are made each year. And yet, only about 500-600 get distribution and thus, are "seen" by any number of folks. That leaves about 49,500 films accumulating each year that don't get seen. After just 10 years of this, we are all nearly a half a million films behind in our viewing. With, quite literally, millions of films out there for someone to choose to watch, how do you get your film noticed by anyone? Daunting, no?
 
Terry, the estimates round very large numbers, whether it’s 50,000 or 549, or any number in between, it’s a lot no matter how you look at it! All those investors, all the actors, all the Filmmakers, the production crew, weather paid or not, it just boughless the mind! Then many went to Film Festival to show their films, all that expense, to have nothing more than a mentioned on a local newspaper. In just Costa Rica, there are many Film Related events, http://delefoco.com/ sometimes they win awards sometimes not. I know of several Productions that can’t afford to pay for the completion negative (Electronic or Print) so they can show it AT ALL! It’s that human emotion that one needs to be heard, to scream from the mountaintop, or make a film. What happens in Costa Rica can be multiply over, and over again, throughout the World. Everywhere!

Humberto Rivera
 
This morning I went to a Costa Rican Cine Expo. It was interesting seeing how much influence the “Culture of Hollywood” affects the Whole World. There were PAINTINGS of frames from Hollywood Films, there were books lots of them, and there was a lot of stuff. Costa Rica is a little country, can you imagine how it’s around the world. I’ve been to similar events in London, China, Russia, Japan, Canada, Panama, Taiwan, Switzerland, just to name a few, it’s the same everywhere. And there is always a seminar on how to raise money for a film.

Humberto Rivera
 
Money is the “Live Blood” if filmmaking, so it stands to reason that there would be a seminar on how to raise “Money”! In each and every event around the Globe! Even if at the bare-minimum, you need a camera, actors, a crew, you need to handle the post production, therefore there has to be some cost. And the culture of the film businesses; is the poorer you look the more everyone want to be paid up front. And even if you have everything donate, there is transportation, food, and marginal expenses that cannot be abandoned. SO you really need your “Uncle Harry”!

And more likely than not you’re going to be WRONG about your budget, that’s the way it is! There are so may little things that just keep on chipping away at your cost, with no revenues, not until you finish it. And God only knows what will happen then!

That’s why the exhausted Filmmakers will take any reasonable offer, whether they break even, or loosed a little of money, once in a while (in a Blue Moon) one lucky filmmaker with receive a fair price for his work.

Humberto Rivera
 
I had a friend that eventually went to live in “Fiji”; he got the connection from one or both the airlines that land in Fiji on the way to Australia and New Zealand. He made “pasta” from a machine he bought in Montreal. It’s been a long time since I spoke with him; he is got to be in 60s or 70s now.

Well, he borrowed a Beta-cam that I had and went to Acapulco, Mexico, it was a “Tits and Ass” film, the film had a story; he also had the gift of good presentation where ever he went, hotels, transportation, food. Anyhow he finished it, and sold territories, like South Korea, Japan, Honk Kong (British at the Time); he sold them all over Asia at the American Film Market in Santa Monica, made a profit, and retired to Fiji with the Pasta Machine he bought in Montreal. I got credit as Executive Producer, and went down to Mexico to look at how the production was going.

So; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”! I would add; “You got to tried it”! I guess I have lots of stories that I have accumulated over the last 71 years. They began when I was 4 or 5 years old, in a little town called Rio Piedras, Puerto Rico. They had three theaters, Paramount, La Luz, and Victoria, I saw all the movies since then, they always knew where to find me! That was my “Cinema Paraiso”! That’s how it all began!

Humberto Rivera
 
Humberto,
If you are worried about being wrong on your budget, you have skipped something very important, which is something I sell as a service: Planning and Budgeting.
You just can't afford to be wrong. If you don't hire me, hire someone else to production manage your project. As I am not based in Central America, and have never done a project there, I would be a poor choice for a project set there. North America, I know well.
 
Thank Christopher, I appreciate your concern, I’ve been doing this for a long time! I’m 71 years Old or Young depending how you look at-it. I went to film school in 1969-1970. I personally know most of the people that developed the software that are currently being used. They don’t call us the USC Mafia for nothing, but I’ll keep you name in my files.

I have been thinking in dwelling into a feature length film for a while, still working on the script, I live in Costa Rica, have lived here for 13 years now, but I do travel out of the Country with my US Passport. If I do a film, it will take place in four Countries in Latin America, and Europe, I’m familiar with all the locations, and you can put a lot of mile in 71 years. Been around the world a few times.

For now I’ll keep writing! Thanks! When I say my “Cinema Paraiso” began when I was 4 or 5 years old, it was before kindergarten, in Puerto Rico (The Commonwealth of the US), went to Los Angeles when I was about 13 and lived there for quite a long time. My face book pages is; https://www.facebook.com/humberto.rivera.96155

Humberto Rivera
 
I had some additional thoughts on what Christopher Mills had to say about cost and things you might have overlooked in a Film. HERE IS TIP! Budgeting is something that comes after a Script is finished, and its subsequent SCRIPT BREAKDOWN, and once in awhile-Storyboards.

I learned over the years, THAT ONE TRICK is to take “the-bellow-the-line” cost and apply to the Credits from Two or Three film you have a similar outlined on paper, THAT ARE SIMILAR TO YOURS, write the names and description down, them copy them down (or copy them over to you software), compile the credits, then start adding-up or taking-them away depending on the personnel on your Film, let the Budget go where it goes. Why reinvent the wheel!

Forget about the Budget; think about the Script First, the budget will be what it will be. With the Script brake down and Budgeting software, that go along with the Script software you’ll get a pretty good picture of how much a film is going to COST, how long is going to take to Produce and Post, then add 20% to it just to be safe, there are always unexpected cost, and post production that is not the place to ask for additional monies, that’s when the sharks come out, they smell BLOOD! Let it not be your blood.

You can fiend software’s at; http://www.writersstore.com/movie-magic-scheduling-software/ or at; http://www.writersstore.com/manufacturers/entertainment-partners/ or at; http://www.screenwritingpro.com/ There are lots of software!

Don’t forget you still have got the Cost of getting the Movie out the door to the World! It’s like if you had a single product to sell, ALL WITHIN A FEW WEEKS, and then it goes to DVDs and other markets, but what business happens, what you do when it opens, depends on what it does in subsequent Markets. It’s really a hard business, and it always involves “Millions of Dollars”, all over the World, in all currencies, it actually like a “crab-shoot”. The movies runs from the very good to the awful, there is no real gage for what makes “A Hit” it’s just luck, and a decent “Marketing Campaign”. You got-to “to-peek” the interest of the Audience; a few weeks before the “Film Opens”. Then cross your fingers!

Humberto Rivera
 
Since we have a “World Wide Audience” here at RedUser.net it might be interesting to hear how “small budgets” or “big budges” Films were financed. What kind of experience did you have? I, mean 50,000 to 550 independently financed is no small task. Did you recouped your monies; did it lead to other films being produced?

Lots of conferences “On how to Raised Money” at film festivals around the World, there is going-to-be some stories. Remember; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

Humberto Rivera
 
I got to thinking that asking people to talk about how they financed their last “Independent Movie” might be too personal a question. It would be like letting “THE-CAT-OUT-OF-THE-BAG”! One thing is for sure lots of “Independent Films” are financed each and every year. Lot’s more are scheduled for the next year, and if the “Trend” is any indication, it will be-upwards. So the question IS-OFF-THE-TABLE, but if someone wants to tell, WE’RE-ALL-EARS!

You might want to talk about some else's film, it doesn’t have to be completely accurate; all the facts don’t need to be present, it just has to be PLAUSIBLE! The people in this forum; WILL ADD THEIR CORRECTED SEASONING to make it happen their way. With their own variations! Remember; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be, anywhere in the World”! People around the World will take care of the rest, meaning they will make it work for themselves, their own way! Remember the Cannes Film Festival and Market are going on, so anything goes! http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/can...litz-catching-fire-heat-jurys-spielberg-meal/

SCAMS WILL NEVER SEIZE; http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/fbi...am-for-wizard-of-oz-feature-toon/#more-499687 “FBI Seeking Victims Of Gigapix Studios SCAM For ‘Wizard Of Oz’ Feature Toon”!

Humberto Rivera
 
Humberto, (and everyone else).
All of the projects I have personally seen get financing fall into four categories:
A) A brave or crazy entity had the money on hand, and had already decided to make a film. At which point a creative they already knew presented them with a proposal they liked.
B) A producer with a track record of completing other people's projects knew of a financial set aside (or output deal) in place to which they could pitch a partly developed project they controlled.
C)A well thought of indie writer or director had made an award winning project. At which point a studio or already capitalized production company cold called them.

D)An actor with some recognition wants to make a movie. This will make any mixture of A, B, & C possible.

I am currently in development of a feature under category A, and pursuing an opportunity under category B.

There are certainly other scenarios, but these are the ones I have sat at the table for repeatedly in the last 24 years of my career.

Craziest ones I have seen include a mobster's bodyguard becoming an exec producer, and a doctor funding a softcore cable movie, and trying to re-invent the process of shooting a film (I was not a producer on either of these, and will not reveal the titles.. yeah, they got distributed.. the bodyguard's films were made, distributed, and turned a profit.. the doctor never made another movie, though he did turn a profit)
 
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Christopher, good luck on getting your film financed! Thank for your candor! I hope everything goes well for you!

Anybody else with an equally number of “CANDID” stories? Or knowledge of other people who had Motion Picture Films FINANCED or is working on them?

Humberto Rivera
 
I’m presuming a lot by giving advice on this forum, but here it goes! Please don’t be offended, none was meant to occur. I know this is a very personal experience for everyone of you, and are there are as many independent productions around the World, as there are many IDEAS on how to do-it. So this just one more IDEA to add to the pile, take it in that sprite.

What do you need to get to the PRODUCTION STAGE ON PAPER; First the STORY CARDS thing that come to mind in non-linear way all neatly writing on a multitude of 4X5 card (or the software); then the story cards are assembled into the SCRIPT with additional dialogue and descriptions (and several drafts); then the PRODUCTION BREAK DOWN and those little color strips that outline when you actually need all the characters present to shoot, and when you just need a just a few characters; a STORYBOARD or at least some drawing would be nice; then different kind of board, one to put the PHOTOS OF YOUR PRINCIPALS CHARACTERS, one or two actors for each category, depending on your budget, make sure they have good contrast among them; races, heights, ages, temperament; all that sort of things.

Then there is the “BELOW THE LINE PEOPLE”, that’s a tough-one, each person you put in the below the line budget is going to effect the final budget; each stunt; each special effect; each car you blow up; the list could-go add-infinitum!

You must appeal to a World Wide Audience, that where the ROI (Return on Investment) is, and I assume you’re talking to money people!

Now you’re ready to talk to the money people, if you don’t have this all-thought-out, they will interject all sorts of crazy ideas into your project. That’s not to say they won’t anyway, but there will be less of-it. The production software for all of the above can be obtained from software that cost $700.00 or less (street price), add three or four months of hard work, and you have a PRESENTABLE PROJECT! Look at #95 above for the software!

If the money people first reaction is positive, if they like the presentation, the next question will be; who will DIRECT the film? If not you who is going to direct the project; there is no problem. But if-it-you, then a new set of negotiations begin.

Humberto Rivera
 
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