Steven Soderberh’s State Of Cinema Talk

[Sergio Perez]

Love the guy... but he just scared me off making a film.

Come on, Mark, its not encouraging, but, specially for someone outside of the US, the rules are different. Peter Jackson made it with Brain Dead, Rodriguez with Mariachi, and many others throughout the world. The state of film in the US is one thing. Talent, perseverance (This one is for you Ketch ), getting the right people and the right script is the true key. A good film- make it an exceptional film- is always an exceptional film, and will end up being recognized and opening doors. Doing it is the hard part!

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Come on, Mark, its not encouraging, but, specially for someone outside of the US, the rules are different. Peter Jackson made it with Brain Dead, Rodriguez with Mariachi, and many others throughout the world. The state of film in the US is one thing. Talent, perseverance (This one is for you Ketch ), getting the right people and the right script is the true key. A good film- make it an exceptional film- is always an exceptional film, and will end up being recognized and opening doors. Doing it is the hard part!

He he, thanks for thinking of me, and well said Sergio.

 

[Mark Toia]

Making or funding our film is not my problem. Luckily in a position to do that easily.. Sadly Distribution is and always will be a problem.. After 2 years of conversations with distributors sales agents and studios they have all just about worn me down, Steven S explaining the same issues reinforces the sane problems I'm having. And makes me think its not getting better even when your a rock star director (like he is) .
Distribution is easy if you want to sell you sole for cheap.. They will rip you blind. Offer you peanuts, lock you into contracts were you cant move and never pay you anything as films ( in there eyes) never make profit... Creative Hollywood accounting... Wiki that .
Im close to done.

 

[paulherrin]

"art is inevitable... we need to tell stories" -steven soderbergh

 

[Brett Harrison]

Making or funding our film is not my problem. Luckily in a position to do that easily.. Sadly Distribution is and always will be a problem.. After 2 years of conversations with distributors sales agents and studios they have all just about worn me down, Steven S explaining the same issues reinforces the sane problems I'm having. And makes me think its not getting better even when your a rock star director (like he is) .
Distribution is easy if you want to sell you sole for cheap.. They will rip you blind. Offer you peanuts, lock you into contracts were you cant move and never pay you anything as films ( in there eyes) never make profit... Creative Hollywood accounting... Wiki that .
Im close to done.

http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Economist-2-0-Financial-Reality/dp/1612190502

Goes right into the 'creative accounting' Mark is referring to and is a cracker of a read.

 

[James McLellan]

Interesting to hear your perspective Mark. Clearly you have the chops to hit it out of the ballpark. Look at Reservoir Dogs, Evil Dead, Cube and countless other early independent films. One location, five actors, no extras, great script. Surely with your resources you can get 10 people together for two weeks. Then hit TIFF and Sundance.

I don't have your skills or experience so I find it interesting that you are frustrated with distribution options as well. Shoot a feature man, I'd gladly pay to watch it.

 

[Mark Toia]

Interesting to hear your perspective Mark. Clearly you have the chops to hit it out of the ballpark. Look at Reservoir Dogs, Evil Dead, Cube and countless other early independent films. One location, five actors, no extras, great script. Surely with your resources you can get 10 people together for two weeks. Then hit TIFF and Sundance.

I don't have your skills or experience so I find it interesting that you are frustrated with distribution options as well. Shoot a feature man, I'd gladly pay to watch it.

Thanks James...

We do have good actors ready to go, Shooting in 4 countries... Modest budget , gear everything all ready to go.. , huge post production values, genre movie as well. Action, UFO's, the lot... Ticks every commercial box (you'd think) WRONG!....
Sadly, the way these monkey exec's are talking in these meetings is that at best I get my investment money back... So in short, Whats the point. ?... So how does a little drama, or any indie film with no name actors even get a chance to shine with so many boxes that need ticking.

And yes, I know there will be people out there saying.. just make it Mark, its not about the money Mark, do it for the love of cinema Mark. it's your passion Mark etc etc...
Unfortunately... thats a great way to slowly become depressed and broke, basically waste a year or two out of your life for know reason other than to (a) have a film on a shelf (b) sell it for peanuts (c) self gratification and a investor trying to kill you.

Sadly the Movie making model for Indi film makers is broken on the back end. Exactly what Steven S is saying.

Indie film break throughs 3 - 5 - 10 years ago was achievable, remembering there was little competition in the market place back then... now days.... Hundreds even thousands of indie films per year are being made, with hundreds finding there way into rubbish bins and the good ones being sold to greedy (vultures) buyers waiting and watching the guy with that great indi film to suffer tom the extent that they can come in buy his movie off him for peanuts.
Seen it so many times already, very depressing watching friends marriages , relationships, home being lost and then see the film playing on a big screen knowing that the sales agents and distributors, cinema owners are living fat off its back... When the film maker barely got 1/4 of his money back to pay his investors.

I think I missed the movie boat...

Im glad I have great day job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting

 

[Brett Harrison]

William Goledman's words still ring true: "Nobody knows anything." Summing up the entertainment industry. Harry Potter was rejected by all the top agencies.

I remember reading in the biography 'Skywalking' that Alan Lad Jnr. Greenlit A New Hope before American Graffiti became the highest grossing movie of its time. He said he was 'investing in talent'.

The problem is that 'franchises' and 'properties' are fairly reliable money makers but you can't manufacture the spark (unless you're a James Cameron or a Christopher Nolan) so now Hollywood is autodigesting.

And I think SS's assessment is right: unless the business operators are movie fans and are making movies out of a love of movies, you will eventually poison the business. Love of entertainment is actually the engine room of the entertainment business. It's why a guy like Joel Silver takes a punt on The Matrix with two baseball-cap wearing guys who've only made a 3M indie movie about a lesbian couple who beat the mob. Joel Silver and Alan Ladd Jnr. are examples of those people SS is talking about: the kind of person who has an uber-talent for recognising talent.

This is a long winded way of saying that the only real justification for an entertainment industry basically boils down to: 'because I wanted to do it for fun'. Nobody told the guy to draw a Wildebeest on the cave wall, which is my take on this really good speech. It will always be a gamble (to some extent) and that's the beauty of it.

 

[Brett Harrison]

OK, this are the final articles on “Steven Soderbergh”, they are from “Collier.com”:
http://collider.com/steven-soderbergh-retirement-behind-the-candelabra/
http://collider.com/steven-soderbergh-digital-cameras-48-fps-interview/
http://collider.com/magic-mike-2-sequel-steven-soderbergh/
http://collider.com/steven-soderbergh-side-effects-contagion-deleted-scenes/

Humberto Rivera

Nice little excerpt about Dragon from one of these interviews

"They’ve got a new sensor coming out, the Dragon, that’s fucking insane, like it’s a whole other level in terms of dynamic range, resolution, it’s crazy. I’ve seen the tests on it, it’s nuts. These guys just stay up really late and they’re just never satisfied and they’re constantly pushing it. So I look at it as…if you’re conservative you should probably use something other than the RED, if you’re someone who likes to live dangerously and push stuff then you should be using the RED because that’s where it’s at its best."

 

[António Fagundes]

If I may chime in, I think Mark is doing his film for all the wrong reasons. And here's why, he's trying to second guess what a commercial hit is, he talks in 'checking boxes' mode, so basically he's trying to get into commercial filmmaking by doing a scale down version of a Hollywood blockbuster, shooting in four continents, etc... but it will always be just that, a cheap replica of what people can see in their local cinema anytime...

Also in his words one can read things such as, wasting a year or two, being depressed and broke... These are not words you even think of when you absolutely have and want to do your movie. When you are driven by passion and certainty, you became so strong, you don't even fear being broke...

I don't think Mark should even spend another minute trying to develop this project. His first film MUST be a passion project, it must be of such importance, love and care that nothing else in life matters unless you can do your little film.

Looks like Mark is trying to join university in the middle... By trying to do a poor man's version of a Hollywood big budget blockbuster... Even Michael Bay started off by doing a film with only two guys being bad ass cops, nothing else, just pure simple fun, no big robots, no science fiction extravaganza, nothing, just two guys chasing the bad guys...

But Mark wants to start off by trying to be something he cannot possibly be. And maybe investors could sense that and see nothing but failure in this project, and they most probably right...

Start small and in control, then grow big and strong...

Just sayin'...

 

[Brett Harrison]

If I may chime in, I think Mark is doing his film for all the wrong reasons. And here's why, he's trying to second guess what a commercial hit is, he talks in 'checking boxes' mode, so basically he's trying to get into commercial filmmaking by doing a scale down version of a Hollywood blockbuster, shooting in four continents, etc... but it will always be just that, a cheap replica of what people can see in their local cinema anytime...

Also in his words one can read things such as, wasting a year or two, being depressed and broke... These are not words you even think of when you absolutely have and want to do your movie. When you are driven by passion and certainty, you became so strong, you don't even fear being broke...

I don't think Mark should even spend another minute trying to develop this project. His first film MUST be a passion project, it must be of such importance, love and care that nothing else in life matters unless you can do your little film.

Looks like Mark is trying to join university in the middle... By trying to do a poor man's version of a Hollywood big budget blockbuster... Even Michael Bay started off by doing a film with only two guys being bad ass cops, nothing else, just pure simple fun, no big robots, no science fiction extravaganza, nothing, just two guys chasing the bad guys...

But Mark wants to start off by trying to be something he cannot possibly be. And maybe investors could sense that and see nothing but failure in this project, and they most probably right...

Start small and in control, then grow big and strong...

Just sayin'...

I think that's an over-reading of what Mark is saying. There's no rule about not making something marketable. Look at James Cameron and The Terminator. It came from a dream he had but he always sought to make movies that are profitable - he just found a way to make an amalgam of art and commerce. He set it in present day LA even though it's about the future so he could make it for 6M.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I have to agree with Antonio here. First, let me say I'm another big Toya admirer here. Your commercial work is absolutely stunning. Mark, you do know how to make impressive imagery both with or without effects. The key here, like Antonio said, is to make use of all the great things you have in your arsenal and get a unique and amazing script. Where Brain Dead or Mariachi technical Marvels? Heck no! But they were FRESH, something audiences wanted to see and never experienced before. With a great cast that you say you have and I'm sure you do (talent follows talent), do something extraordinary. You don't need to go to 4 continents to have a story I want to see as an audience. There was this independent film that takes place in a coffin almost 80 per cent of the movie, and it was incredible. Now its the time to think outside of the box as well as put all your expertise into delivering something special- like a Michel Gondry movie or similar. Your Lord of The Rings can and will follow suit!

 

[Michel Rabe]

And makes me think its not getting better even when your a rock star director (like he is) .

If I remember right Clint Eastwood struggled hard to find a distributor for Million Dollar Baby. Strange industry. Great speech by Soderbergh.

 

[Humberto Rivera]

Elsie, I agree, I for one also considered it refreshing hearing from some else other than the usual suspects. Specially from “Steven Soderberh” who actually knows what he’s talking about, it’s even refreshing to hear the “Dragon Sensor” referred to as; “I mean the new Dragon 6k is crazy”, most of us know what he means!

Amen Mark Toia! It’s not making it, it’s the DISTRIBUTION! That’s someone else’s business. But you at least have to get your money BACK! The studios DO NOT ALLOW that for an independent producers; who IS NOT GOING TO BRING THEM SOMETHING ELSE BACK!

Humberto Rivera

 

[Elsie N]

...it’s the DISTRIBUTION! That’s someone else’s business...

Humberto Rivera

I think that's why something like ODEMAX offers hope that we can make distributoun OUR business. If and when that's established, money will flow to good projects because the investors will know we have a venue for wide release. I don't see it happening overnight due to the cost of the Red Player (still wish they could make an inexpensive consumer model and perhaps package it with 4k TVs) but in time it could be THE destination for Indie content.

 

[Humberto Rivera]

Let me say a quote that I attributed to myself (but I’m sure it came from someone else); “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”, I’m sure I picked it somewhere along my life, I’m 71 years old, I just don’t know where? I attended the “USC Cinema School” in 1970 (that’s what it was called then), it was the Navy Program (I was in the US Marine Corps).

So, somewhere in the World, RIGHT NOW, someone is doing-it, in the Movie Business, whatever it may be!

I had some additional thought on Distributors; you have TO GET THEM TO BELIEF that if they go along with you, they will get the next big film to come down the pike, they don’t want their competitors to grab it. Look what happened with the Movie rights to “Fifty Shades of Grey” all the studio ‘topers’ went to New York and began bidding against other, for what, someone with no prior Movie Experience, eventually Universal Studio got it. Kudos to the Literary Agent!

I totally agree with Mark Toia when he cites; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting it’s worth reading several times, there are many examples of “Hollywood Accounting Practices”, which are different than traditional “Accounting Practice”. It’s important to observe the differences. To quote from the wikipedia article; “"Darling! This is the Industry! The really creative people are the accountants. A big studio got over half the profit, after setting breakeven at about three times the cost, taking twenty-five percent of income as an overhead charge, and taking thirty percent of income as a distribution charge, plus rental fees, and prime interest on what they advanced."

I could go on, and on, but just remember; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

Humberto Rivera

 

[Humberto Rivera]

If may call your attention to the article; http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100708/02510310122.shtml is actually a leak of the “Financial Statement from Warner Brother’s” giving an accounting report for; “Harry Potter and the Oder of the Phoenix”. It ended up with a $167M loss on Revenues of $938M.

To quote the article; “With these lawsuits exposing Hollywood's sneakier accounting tricks, and finding them not very convincing, a number of Hollywood studios may face a glut of upcoming lawsuits over similar deals on properties that "lost" money while making millions. It's why many of the studios are pretty worried about the rulings. Of course, these recent rulings will be appealed, and a jury ruling might not really mean much in the long run. Still, for now, it's a fun glimpse into yet another way that Hollywood lies with numbers to avoid paying people what they owe (while at the same sanctimoniously insisting in the press and to politicians that they're all about getting content creators paid what they're due).”

Humberto Rivera

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Making or funding our film is not my problem. Luckily in a position to do that easily.. Sadly Distribution is and always will be a problem.. After 2 years of conversations with distributors sales agents and studios they have all just about worn me down, Steven S explaining the same issues reinforces the sane problems I'm having. And makes me think its not getting better even when your a rock star director (like he is) .
Distribution is easy if you want to sell you sole for cheap.. They will rip you blind. Offer you peanuts, lock you into contracts were you cant move and never pay you anything as films ( in there eyes) never make profit... Creative Hollywood accounting... Wiki that .
Im close to done.

Mark, I simpatize with you as I have been in there more then once for the past several years with 3 different Projects... And because of their absurdities they lost me fundings more then once...

But I am most positive we'll find a way...

 

[Mark Toia]

If I may chime in, I think Mark is doing his film for all the wrong reasons. And here's why, he's trying to second guess what a commercial hit is, he talks in 'checking boxes' mode, so basically he's trying to get into commercial filmmaking by doing a scale down version of a Hollywood blockbuster, shooting in four continents, etc... but it will always be just that, a cheap replica of what people can see in their local cinema anytime...

Also in his words one can read things such as, wasting a year or two, being depressed and broke... These are not words you even think of when you absolutely have and want to do your movie. When you are driven by passion and certainty, you became so strong, you don't even fear being broke...

I don't think Mark should even spend another minute trying to develop this project. His first film MUST be a passion project, it must be of such importance, love and care that nothing else in life matters unless you can do your little film.

Looks like Mark is trying to join university in the middle... By trying to do a poor man's version of a Hollywood big budget blockbuster... Even Michael Bay started off by doing a film with only two guys being bad ass cops, nothing else, just pure simple fun, no big robots, no science fiction extravaganza, nothing, just two guys chasing the bad guys...

But Mark wants to start off by trying to be something he cannot possibly be. And maybe investors could sense that and see nothing but failure in this project, and they most probably right...

Start small and in control, then grow big and strong...

Just sayin'...

I rest my case.

 

[Humberto Rivera]

Once I get started on the subject of the “Studios Distribution Cost” it’s kind of hard to stop! Especially since today in Costa Rica we’re hosting the arrival of President Obama, and on top of that he’s is staying in Escazu, so the Country is shut down in the Capital and surrounding areas! He leaves tomorrow; meanwhile I’m home with nothing to-do.

Anyhow, back to the Distributor’s; http://www.deadline.com/2010/07/stu...ause-of-warner-bros-phony-baloney-accounting/ “STUDIO SHAME! Even Harry Potter Pic Loses Money Because Of Warner Bros’ Phony Baloney Net Profit Accounting”! By MIKE FLEMING JR reported on Tuesday July 6, 2010 @ 8:58am PDT.

Continuing to quote; “I ran the data above by several attorneys and agents, who are so accustomed to seeing studio accounting wave magic pencils over hit movies that they weren’t surprised even a Harry Potter film that grossed nearly $1 billion would fall under the spell. Dealmakers say studio distribution fees are a killer, as are incestuous ad spends on studios’ sister company networks. They also cited the $57 million in interest charges, an enormous pushback on profitability. Since Warner Bros didn’t invite in a co-financing partner on the Potter films, has the studio borrowed money from parent company coffers? Are they paying that interest to a bank, or to themselves? Bottom line: nearly $60 million in interest for the estimated $400 million required to make and market Harry Potter, charges carried for about two years, is a high tariff.

As one dealmaker tells me: “If this is the fair definition of net profits, why do we continue to pretend and go through this charade? Judging by this, no movie is ever, ever going to go to pay off on net participants. It’s an illusion to make writers, and lower-level actors and filmmakers feel they have a stake in the game.”

To that I say; “Anything you say in the “Movie Business” is “True”, no matter how outrageous it may be”!

Humberto Rivera