Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Stage 4 - Reservations are now Open.

There is a lot of talking here about stage 3 and 4 and a lot of speculations going around, i understand your frustration about instant gratification and wanting your product as soon as possible, my self included. But even i have to admit that there are things that are not
up to us, and under our control. Everytime man is thrown into any equation as a variable the outcome is always hard to predict. therefore all we can do is use logic to the best of our abilities, and hope for the best (hope being such a vague word). I'm pretty sure that Red
will not hold the shipments of stage 4 just because a few individuals from stage 3 or 3.5 have not sent their cameras back. i feel confident that they are working as hard as they can and are producing enough inventory to satisfy the orders for every stage even now.
meaning that they are not going to stop making inventory and hold the production line for the ones that have not sent their trade-in. in conclusion relax a little kick back and enjoy your holidays, when the moment comes they will be the first ones to let us know when the
time COMES!!! Merry Xmas everybody!!
 
Jarred Land said:
old prices on the left, new prices on the right :

EPIC-X Brain ................................ $27,500 .. $34,500
DSMC Side Handle ........................ $950 ....... $1,200
RED Touch LCD 5" ........................ $1,600 .... $1,950
REDmote ..................................... $550 ....... $750
Pro I/O Module ............................. $2,950 .... $3,750
Pro Battery Module (Dual) .............. $1,250 ..... $1,450
Click to expand...

I too would like clarification if the new 2012 price $1200 on the DSMC side hand from Jarred is a typo, as Jim Jannard previously said the new price would be $1750
 
James McLellan said:
Just a thought Ketch. Extended warranties often are for the consumer who has one or two items only. Once you have ten Epic-x's red armour for all of them will cost nearly as much as buying an Epic-x itself. What are the chances you will have over $30,000 in repairs for your ten Epics? I think in situations like that it is best not to buy the warranty. People who have only one camera are in a different situation though.
Click to expand...

My posting was in regards to not loose the Included ONE YEAR Warranty, if I was to change ownership of record from myself to my company, definitely wan't keep the cameras with only a 90 Day warranty.

I have a Personal "M" camera that NO ONE but me touches... But this new Army of EPIC cameras, will go on to full production of 3 Movies next year, plus some other small projects,
most of them in 3D, so the cameras will take a bitting, and NO WARRANTY is out of the question.


I'm Director/3D Specialist/Cinematographer/Actor in one, and 3D specialist in the other two, so I have no time to look after the Cameras, and want a piece of mind, that the warranty is in place for them.

So if I need to wait till I get the Company established I will, and unfortunately I'll just Pay the increased 2012 price... :(


But I hope to find a way around of it, and save a starting company some cash... ;)
 
why does the camera not have the warranty like all other goods with warranties? Its a bit mad to make the warranty tied to the person who bought it as the camera functions regardless of who owns its. It has no way of knowing who owns it so doesn't care and will either work or not work and if it doesn't work its most likely a parts failure.

Cutting a 1 year warranty to 90 days because the camera changes ownership just doesn't seem right. If I purchase a new car, truck, dvd player, lens, LCD display, fridge, sofa, oven, bike... etc the warranty is the warranty regardless of if it changes ownership. Everyone if different and every situation changes and goods pass ownership because of whatever reason, that shouldn't have any bearing on validating a products manufacturing to work as advertised for a set period.
 
If you want an Epic sooner, put in a Stage 4 reservation.

If you want an Epic cheaper, put in a Stage 3/3.5 reservation.

I'm not sure why this continues to be such a source of drama.
 
AndrewThomas said:
If you want an Epic sooner, put in a Stage 4 reservation.

If you want an Epic cheaper, put in a Stage 3/3.5 reservation.

I'm not sure why this continues to be such a source of drama.
Click to expand...


I sure hope it is not aimed at my comment Andrew, I believe I know a thing or two more then some on here on how to proceed with orders of what and when... ;)
 
Nope, not directed at you or your particular situation with the warranty issues. There are a growing number of Stage 3ers you apparently didn't get that the process of shipping cameras, having them evaluated, determining the trade in credit, and then allocation of Epic, would be a fairly lengthy process (MX upgrade, anyone?). Given that it will take much more time to ship/evaluate/determine trade credit/allocate Epic than it actually takes to build and box the Epic itself, of course Red isn't going to wait until completion of the trade in program to begin selling stage 4s. So yes, you have two options. You can trade-in your Red One when the time comes and receive a very favorable trade-in allowance and some free modules, or you can plop down cash now and get your Stage 4 epic sooner rather than later. But the truth is that if you are an early delivery Red One, you probably get the best of both worlds.


Though I don't think I would be so quick to toot my horn about knowing Red procedure were I to have been the one with the issues that came up over brokering camera deals in violation of Red policy... ;)
 
AndrewThomas said:
...

Though I don't think I would be so quick to toot my horn about knowing Red procedure were I to have been the one with the issues that came up over brokering camera deals in violation of Red policy... ;)
Click to expand...
I suspect Red was well aware and very happy to have someone managing such an enterprise. I think their main objection to that was the potential to have an ownership mess that would cause utter confusion. I used Ketch as a broker and he kept order among all the chaos.

Just speaking from my personal experience.
 
roryhinds said:
why does the camera not have the warranty like all other goods with warranties? Its a bit mad to make the warranty tied to the person who bought it as the camera functions regardless of who owns its. It has no way of knowing who owns it so doesn't care and will either work or not work and if it doesn't work its most likely a parts failure.

Cutting a 1 year warranty to 90 days because the camera changes ownership just doesn't seem right. If I purchase a new car, truck, dvd player, lens, LCD display, fridge, sofa, oven, bike... etc the warranty is the warranty regardless of if it changes ownership. Everyone if different and every situation changes and goods pass ownership because of whatever reason, that shouldn't have any bearing on validating a products manufacturing to work as advertised for a set period.
Click to expand...

May be there would not be any thing else than second hand cameras for a higher price if there was no such warranty break. It's kind of taking the edge of the second hand market in a good way. It would be quite easy for some other large camera manufacturer or such to order 5000 epics on the release date and then sell them for h higher price, but now that is a bit more tricky since the transfer fees and broken warranties... so maybe it's not to bad...
 
andrew,

With all due respect - you are getting this wrong.

First it is unlikely that there will be stage 4 delivery in numbers before stage 3.

Second I have no idea where this notion is coming from that anybody's camera
delivery will be delayed by stage three owners dragging their feet in terms of sending their cameras in.
Every stage 3 Red One owner that I know is only waiting for the word from Red.

If Red would give out an open call to send in stage three cameras today you would see
a line of Fedex delivery trucks heading to their facility tomorrow.

And in terms of the evaluation: I assume that pretty much all of us have working cameras.
We are only talking of the camera bodies here - so if a Red Owner has one that has problem
we will usually send it in to get it repaired - simply because this is our tool of trade.

So it is not that Red will receive a bunch of beat up asthmatic clunkers...



AndrewThomas said:
Nope, not directed at you or your particular situation with the warranty issues. There are a growing number of Stage 3ers you apparently didn't get that the process of shipping cameras, having them evaluated, determining the trade in credit, and then allocation of Epic, would be a fairly lengthy process (MX upgrade, anyone?). Given that it will take much more time to ship/evaluate/determine trade credit/allocate Epic than it actually takes to build and box the Epic itself, of course Red isn't going to wait until completion of the trade in program to begin selling stage 4s. So yes, you have two options. You can trade-in your Red One when the time comes and receive a very favorable trade-in allowance and some free modules, or you can plop down cash now and get your Stage 4 epic sooner rather than later. But the truth is that if you are an early delivery Red One, you probably get the best of both worlds.


Though I don't think I would be so quick to toot my horn about knowing Red procedure were I to have been the one with the issues that came up over brokering camera deals in violation of Red policy... ;)
Click to expand...
 
I hope you all bare with me on my position about this stage 4 shipping at the same time as stage 3/ 3.5 thing. (I'm a stage 4 order so it will obviously state why I do think shipping stage 4 at the same time as 3 and 3.5 makes sense)

I've followed Red for many years, since the beginning of this site and the early postings at dvxuser by Jim. However, unlike many of you, I just couldn't jump on the Red bandwagon during the Red One days: I'm in a remote location, and the Red One workflow, size, weight as well as the budget (at that time) was just impossible for someone like me to cope with. Now, however, with stage Epic 4, I have the money, the camera size is just perfect and works in my shooting style, and I could immediately commit to it. I think many redusers are like me, not only on the Epic but also on the Scarlet side of things. I'm obviously not comparing myself to early Red One adopters, which had to help Red build itself, as well as help the camera evolve with firmwares, battle testing them and opening the road for the MX sensor, the Epic and the Scarlet. But I sincerely don't see were we, the Stage 4 Epic X purchasers, differ from the late 2008/2009/2010 Red One owners, those that entered on the bandwagon when the camera and workflow was already mature and proven. By then, the Red One was already a well respected and cemented cinema camera, requested by many productions!

With all due respect, you guys have a great camera and are getting a great deal with this. In this particular situation you are getting preferred shipping over stage 4's. But requesting every single stage 3 and 3.5 camera to be shipped before the Stage 4's is also unfair not only to us stage 4 orders as well as to Red. This would mean them having to actually slow down manufacture and revenue stream. Lets not forget they are an independent company, not a huge corporation in the stock market. They are a privately own company that needs liquidity to continue R&D, pay salaries (to US workers contrary to many that outsource) and continue the incredible software and hardware development and manufacture.

Sorry for the small rant. Its just I've only heard the voice of stage 3 and stage 3.5 orders that are unreasonably negative-with some notable exceptions!- and stage 4 people are just silent. I needed to put a stage 4 perspective in this.

Remember, stage 3 and 3.5 get preferred shipping, but stage 4's should ship during the pending stages of stage 3 and 3.5 during the evaluation process. This seems fair and well thought out by Red!
 
My understanding is best explained by the following (hypothetical) situation:

RED has 1.000 Epic-X ready for delivery. If 1.000 R1s have been sent in for execution of Stage 3 and are paid up, then all these cameras will be allocated to stage 3 customers. Stage 4 customers have to wait.

If, however, only 350 R1s have been sent in as part of the Stage 3 deal, then 650 cameras will be delivered for Stage 4 customers.

Easy, and more than fair to everyone.
 
"I have no idea where this notion is coming from that anybody's camera
delivery will be delayed by stage three owners dragging their feet in terms of sending their cameras in."

It's been stated several times by a number of RED employees, including Jarred, and is the basis for RED's rationale to begin accepting Stage 4 orders before the completion of Stage 3.

And it makes sense. Surely there are a good number of Red Ones out for long-term rentals (and owner/operator projects), many of which would not want to be recalled by the owners (thereby disrupting the rentals) or returned by the renters (for the sake of continuity in performance and operation for the duration of the projects for which they are being rented). Also, there are certainly a good number of Red Ones scheduled for upcoming rentals (and owner/operator projects) which could be queered by an abrupt and unexpected replacement by Epic-Xs, since many could be expected to up their rental rates from R1 to Epic and since some R1 functionalities continue to trump those of Epic, including the continued absence of the I/O module for the Epic.
 
Martin Weiss said:
My understanding is best explained by the following (hypothetical) situation:

RED has 1.000 Epic-X ready for delivery. If 1.000 R1s have been sent in for execution of Stage 3 and are paid up, then all these cameras will be allocated to stage 3 customers. Stage 4 customers have to wait.

If, however, only 350 R1s have been sent in as part of the Stage 3 deal, then 650 cameras will be delivered for Stage 4 customers.

Easy, and more than fair to everyone.
Click to expand...

That assumes that 1000 emails have gone out from Red to send in the old cameras.
Jarred's made it clear that's not going to happen, as it would jeopardize Red's finances.
It's something that seems to have just occurred to Red's accountants in the last month or so, as it hadn't been mentioned at any stage in the previous two years of the Epic-x program ... or before the Tattoo program became the Epic-M program, ramping up early Epic sales figures dramatically.

This earlier post (#119) from Brent actually seems to imply that a single un-returned Stage 3 body puts a hold, indefinitely, on the entire Stage 3 process:

" If just one Stage 3/3.5 is out on a prolonged shoot and cannot come back to us for a year, should we sit here with EPIC-Xs on the shelf and Stage 4 orders in the system - and not ship anything? We cannot control when you send in a Stage 3/3.5 camera, you do."

Surely if 'just one' Stage 3/3.5 Red One is not returned, that camera is no longer eligible for STAGE 3, anyway?
According to the long- stated policy by Red, at least from my memory, there is a 30 day window to pay the balance and return the Red One. So why is Brent talking about a scenario where a Red One doesn't come back for a year?

Please, Brent, can you clarify?
You compared the trade-in scenario to the old audio board program, but that was a "return at your leisure" situation- completely different to this, right?

Seems clear that what will slow down stage 3 delivery isn't delays in camera returns, but delays in requests for Stage 3 returns... Or if the emails only go out in extremely small numbers.

Clarity, transparency, and logic would be great here, but please no more name - calling from Red or newbies about impatience, ungratefulness... They've been waiting for over 2 years since the announcement of the stages..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top