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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

STAGE 2: KEEP your RED ONE and get EPIC-X Stage 2 package

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Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
With respect, I disagree. If they had gone the 'private email' route, then at least some of the recipients of such private emails would have been on here starting multiple threads within five minutes. As it is, they've anticipated and managed the situation in public, in one thread. FWIW, I think they made the right call, both in terms of how they handled it and what the resolution appears to be.

Mike
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Completely agree. They handled this right. Not having been around much the past couple days, I've just finally got caught up on reading this thread. Some of it was a bit hard to get through... Oh, the drama. Like Jarred said he expected, it got emotional. Anyway, it looks like a happy ending for most folks.
 
Carlos,
You summed up my feelings exactly.

Carlos Prio said:
Over the past several years I have trusted Red's policies & Jim's obvious madness!!! I am one of the owners who has followed the original Stage 2 instructions and has patiently waited for this date to arrive despite the extended wait, my $5k on account for a very long time and the massive quantities of Epic-Ms landing in my backyard ahead of my upgrade. All that being said, there has never been a piece of equipment (and company) that has so greatly impacted my career than the Red One and there has never been a company who has laid out such a generous path to upgrades like Red has. You are right, this fact has kept me patient, loyal and less combative than I would typically be... but I am and will remain indebted.

Save your energy & chatter on this issue and allow Red to deal with this directly & discreetly with the effected parties. I am sure they will find an amicable solution that will allow them/you to get your camera and Red to fulfill their ultimate function of "Revenue"!!! So, can we please get back to shipping Stage 2???

Wishing Jim, Jarred and the whole Red Team well!!!

Cheers,

Prio
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Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
With respect, I disagree. If they had gone the 'private email' route, then at least some of the recipients of such private emails would have been on here starting multiple threads within five minutes. As it is, they've anticipated and managed the situation in public, in one thread. FWIW, I think they made the right call, both in terms of how they handled it and what the resolution appears to be.

Mike
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That's a good point Mike, I had thought of it but reckoned it would have been more in RED's interests to delete and manage such threads rather than the flurry of responses here. Maybe one is as bad as the other.

I can understand the emotion behind RED's posts, it must have been bad to find out that such a loop hole was being exploited, and these are passionate guys, no doubt there. But maybe Jack is just as emotional and passionate, leading him to jump in with such an extreme reaction, it would be a shame if Jack didn't receive his EPIC after comments made in anger.

I think reading down the thread it is plain to see why some people could respond in that way. That's the bit I still think is damaging to RED, but hey ho, what the hell do I know.

Like you, i am glad to see that for the most part, it is now getting dealt with.
 
In my opinion, this thread stands as a great example of why RED is different. They publicly posted about a problem they had; a potentially very serious problem that involved some of their earliest users and strongest proponents. The community - those who were directly affected and otherwise - sent their responses either publicly or via private e-mail. And every indication is that RED really listened to what people were saying, considered it carefully, and posted their resolution based on the responses publicly. It was an open process, carried out in public, despite being about a very sensitive issue. And people (with a couple of exceptions) behaved maturely - they posted their thoughts and opinions, but didn't get into shouting matches, berate each other, attack RED, or go off on massive tirades.

Not to be a fanboy, or to be cruel about many other companies, but I feel like elsewhere, people would have just gotten an email that began with "Dear valued customer, We are sorry to inform you..." and that would be that. End of game. Like it or move on.

Not so, here. I'm not suggesting that RED "owes" this sort of discourse to any of us in the past, present, or future. I don't think that we should expect it - they are trying to run a company, after all. But it has been something that has massively and repeatedly impressed me and many others over the course of years.
 
As much of a train-wreck that this thread may appear to be..... we sure learn a lot about our customers with a thread like this.
 
Jarred Land said:
As much of a train wreck that this thread may appear to be..... we learn a lot about our customers with a thread like this.
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I agree, you guys must learn a ton about people on here... This is a RED town hall meeting where people come and speak their minds. Love it!
 
RED should publish the names of the people who sold/rented their Stage 2 R1s. Not only would it work as a kind of restorative justice, but we'd all know who the douchebags and scoundrels are that frequent this forum.
 
Jarred Land said:
As much of a train wreck that this thread may appear to be..... we learn a lot about our customers with a thread like this.
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I've got to wonder if the thread would have evolved differently if the ol' tantalizing technique (which normally precedes new product info) hadn't been applied to a suggested penalty!
 
Liam Hall said:
RED should publish the names of the people who sold/rented their Stage 2 R1s. Not only would it work as a kind of restorative justice, but we'd all know who the douchebags and scoundrels are that frequent this forum.
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Except not everyone who sold their RedOnes before taking delivery of the EPIC-X (Stage 2) are "douchebags and scoundrels". That's why RED is treating them like the "bros" they are.
 
Stewart Rock said:
That's a good point Mike, I had thought of it but reckoned it would have been more in RED's interests to delete and manage such threads rather than the flurry of responses here. Maybe one is as bad as the other.
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I think that would have been a terrible idea; it would have made a LOT of work for the moderators, and would have sparked (justifiable) accusations of censorship and cover-up - it could have shattered REDuser permanently; an unofficial forum would have sprung up where such issues could be discussed freely. Nope, Jarred made the right call. The only other viable option would be for RED to grit their teeth, look the other way when it came to people not keeping the letter of the agreement, and ignore the whole situation. They clearly felt strongly enough about the situation that this was never an option.

(About the only time I can recall thread deletion & forbidden topics on REDuser was over the FCC 'EPIC teardown' pics; I can kinda understand that, although it's something I still don't quite understand the sensitivity of - it's all in the public domain. But it's their train set.)

Mike
 
Jim and Jarred...

Thanks for caring so deeply about each and every RED customer that you get bummed out when they don't behave the way you expect friends and family to.
 
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Use care and re-read before responding Joseph, as Liam chooses his words carefully. He wrote "sold" not "leased". I don't mention that to suggest he makes the distinction, btw.

:emote_popcorn:
 
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Having been caught in the birger warranty crossfire and then redeemed by Jarred, (a very similar scenario to what happened here), in my humble opinion we gain a couple things out of this.

1. We get to learn about who Jim and Jarred and Red Co really are as people. I've got friends at apple, sony, dreamworks, well the list goes on, but I've never been close enough to the upper circle to get past the PR firm. I've seen Jarred get mad a couple times. But he always comes back with a very reasonable, measured response and RED consistently errs on the side of generosity and forgiveness. That helps me understand they are passionate people who love what they do, love their product and love their customers. They get hurt when we misunderstand or take advantage of them, because what they give us is a gift before it is a product. No one above the PR level at most other companies responds to their customers personally. Well Steve Jobs did once, but they never found the body...

2. We see what Red's company character is. And what I have seen since the very beginning, (which is way back when the viewfinder was attached) is that RED errs on the side of generosity and forgiveness, even when provoked and thanks to this forum we see that it isn't a carefully crafted PR ploy calculated to increase sales. The heart of RED is the heart of Jim Jannard and that's why RED is different. Most companies are sales driven, so the product always has a target price point or release date which is more important than the product design itself. In my opinion, Jim's goal is to make the most amazing cameras possible and charging prices for them he would charge to his friends. He's no stranger to making money, but if he wanted more money he could have bought a chain of storage units. Instead he invites us into his home and lets us be part of the dialog and the dream.

I think that's amazing.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Use care and re-read before responding Joseph, as Liam chooses his words carefully. He wrote "sold" not "leased". I don't mention that to suggest he makes the distinction, btw.
:emote_popcorn:
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Really, he wrote "sold/rented". I am in the rental business. I must really be in trouble. What if you sold your Red to buy other reds (Epic M) after waiting for more than a year for your x? I mean calling people names that buy $58,000 cameras so they can stay in business is a good thing? Thinking things through is a good thing.

Liam Hall said:
RED should publish the names of the people who sold/rented their Stage 2 R1s. Not only would it work as a kind of restorative justice, but we'd all know who the douchebags and scoundrels are that frequent this forum.
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