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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

STAGE 2: KEEP your RED ONE and get EPIC-X Stage 2 package

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But isn't it quite sad that this thread (at this pace) will be the top one for days to come? I mean, now when EPIC-X moves out the door...?
Jim, I seriously doubt that Jack have anything more to say other than he's sorry.
 
Mike Seymour said:
Disclaimer first:
I have my Red One MX. I have an EPIC M and I have an Epic X on the way... I may sell one of these in the future.

Ok, now I just wanted to post that I am really surprised by some of the reactions here.

The idea of the discount Stage 2 to valuable clients is both a generous and positive business decision. To make it that you need to still own your Red one seems completely reasonable to me. No one said if you sold your Red One you could not buy an Epic. The opposite - M Epics are fully on sale to anyone. Full queue jump if you want to call it that... (I dont but someone new to RED could just buy an M and move forward). So the idea that a special offer with conditions is any different here than anywhere else is so surprising to me.
Companies run promotions all the time, they nearly always have conditions - One per customer, limit of two, limited time only etc... this is so common it isn't funny...

So the issue seems to be that people forgot that there was such conditions - fair enough - But Red responded with "OK well lets stop it now please".. MORE than fair enough... shouldn't that be it?

Surely this is getting seriously unreasonable.

Red made a generous offer. There was a HUGE easy way around it if you did not want to play: Buy a Epic M - And if you screwed up on your Red One - as I know some people just accidentally did - then RED has been more than reasonable.

Wow. Anyone think how RED may look at any future suggestion of a discount to loyal customer? Seriously, I think a simple thank you, and moving on is the only response.

Thanks Red.

Mike
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Great post, Mike. I'm glad that RED bent backwards to acccomodate those that misunderstood the policy....how reasonable is that! After all this time even I forgot what the acctual terms of stage 2 were...luckily I still enjoy my RED ONE and will be sending it for MX upgrade soon :)

It's great community and I love to be in RED family. What a great outcome!
 
Jack Cooper said:
Jarred, first, with all due respect, your "Item 3" (as posted) is not a public stance. Actually, if you, or Red think it is, then Jim should seriously consider replacing his general council. More importantly, I'm personally offended if you try to pass it off as such.

If you're referring to something else, you wouldn't happen to have a link to that "stance" would you...? I know there were at least 100+ posts on the lease conversations. Again, ironically, all of ours have been deleted (or at least we can't find them in the search or record logs).

For both Jim and Jarred, what you should really be hearing from the Red community is that your "stance" was not an effective form of communication. Personally, I think you narrowly avoided a potential class action lawsuit today. And by the way, I personally know of 12 attorneys who reviewed those documents - again a ridiculous job on the part of Jim's legal representatives.

Finally, it's ironic that Jim has yet to articulate what he is so "unhappy" about...

Enjoy the rest of the holiday weekend.
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With all due respect, you're completely wrong. It's in plain English in the PDF doc or whatever it is that was posted earlier in this thread and the website (as stated previously) when you paid for your Stage 2 deposit that you have to still own your Red One when you take delivery of the Stage 2 Epic. It's pretty simple. It's not Red's job or responsibility to look into all the different lease agreements being discussed on a public forum to see if they are from people who have paid for a Stage 2 reservation.

Also, in California (where Red is located) and perhaps in other states, businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. This Stage 2 offer was given as a courtesy to the "family" that Red built and felt was very important to them. I imagine Red is making very little profit (if any) from these Stage 2 packages. Red is not legally obligated to follow through with the sale of the Stage 2 Epic to anyone. They could give the $5K deposit back and say they're not going to sell it to you or anyone else if they want. Red has even made the camera better and the package better since originally announced and since the Stage 2 deposits were made. No attorney is going to win any litigation against any of that.

And a lease to own in this sense is not a lease, it's a sale with a payment plan. Ownership changed hands.

Just to note, none if this affects me in any way, except that I'd hate to see a bad experience for Red with this offer prevent them from offering similar promotions to loyal Red users in the future. I'm not a Red One owner, but wish I had bought one when I was thinking about it a few years ago because I definitely would have been all over Stage 2. So now I wait for Stage 4 or maybe I'll just get an Epic-M, and soon will be a loyal Red customer and owner.
 
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I really can't believe Jim's generosity here, people have been trying to screw him. Every Stage 2 camera pre sold is a sale lost to RED. You can buy a RED ONE in the store no wait, those cameras don't have the Epic X upgrade path so are the same as an executed camera.

I really don't understand how so many people did not get this.

Best Stephen
 
Mike Seymour said:
Disclaimer first:
I have my Red One MX. I have an EPIC M and I have an Epic X on the way... I may sell one of these in the future.

Ok, now I just wanted to post that I am really surprised by some of the reactions here.

The idea of the discount Stage 2 to valuable clients is both a generous and positive business decision. To make it that you need to still own your Red one seems completely reasonable to me. No one said if you sold your Red One you could not buy an Epic. The opposite - M Epics are fully on sale to anyone. Full queue jump if you want to call it that... (I dont but someone new to RED could just buy an M and move forward). So the idea that a special offer with conditions is any different here than anywhere else is so surprising to me.
Companies run promotions all the time, they nearly always have conditions - One per customer, limit of two, limited time only etc... this is so common it isn't funny...

So the issue seems to be that people forgot that there was such conditions - fair enough - But Red responded with "OK well lets stop it now please".. MORE than fair enough... shouldn't that be it?

Surely this is getting seriously unreasonable.

Red made a generous offer. There was a HUGE easy way around it if you did not want to play: Buy a Epic M - And if you screwed up on your Red One - as I know some people just accidentally did - then RED has been more than reasonable.

Wow. Anyone think how RED may look at any future suggestion of a discount to loyal customer? Seriously, I think a simple thank you, and moving on is the only response.

Thanks Red.

Mike
Click to expand...

Completely agree. I so wish I had a Red One and Stage 2 reservation.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
No need to make fun guys. It isn't polite, and it makes us look bad.

Imran, I seriously doubt there is reason for Jack to worry... as long as he stops teasing the (clearly benevolent) dragon.
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heh considering if he comes back with that attitude instead of a sorry I would be worried if I was him... "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude"

with dragon on the way and stuff... saying sorry quickly would be a real good idea
 
I am very confused with this thread… or I should say I am confused on how some Red users misunderstood the agreement when we signed and sent the 5K deposit?
 
Seriously, I've never seen such barking in the face of generosity.
 
Vince Doran said:
He's on the phone talking to his 12 apostles, he'll call back later
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Damn, you beat me to it, hehe

I really hope this doesn't reflect on future dealings with customers. One bad apple can easily ruin it for the rest.

Jack, Jim seems like a pretty reasonable guy. Speaking from experience, a simple gesture of a sincere apology would suffice for a reasonable person. I know it would for me. All it takes is a little bit of pride swallowing and it's all over. Then this thread can be put to bed.
 
Mike Seymour said:
Red made a generous offer. There was a HUGE easy way around it if you did not want to play: Buy a Epic M - And if you screwed up on your Red One - as I know some people just accidentally did - then RED has been more than reasonable.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with Mike Seymour. I thought about the lease-to-own option many months ago, as a way to get an Epic this year. I wrote a note to Jarred asking him if that was kosher, and got no response. Then I thought more about it, and it felt a little like bad karma. My intuition told me that it was not in the spirit of the amazing deal Red had offered R1 owners. So I bought my Epic-M instead. Very happy with that choice. More money, sure, but I can sleep at night not worrying about some down-the-road warrantee problem or upgrade eligibility.

These upgrade offers are amazingly generous by Red, and they are treated like an entitelment by so many on Reduser. In spite of all that, Red responds with an open heart yet again. Jim and Jarred and company really Rock, and I'm sooooo glad I didn't go the Alexa route...even though up here in SF, Alexas rule. (I have a master plan to deal with that by the way)

Thumbs up to Red. And thumbs down to all you complainers.
 
Litigation? Over a place in line and a gift? Seriously? That is akin to suing over principle; it's absurd. It's not worth the expense, and the window of opportunity that they're fighting for would close before a case was ever heard. Preposterous.
 
I go for a bit of dinner come back and it looks like a grenade has been chucked in here... :emote_head_explode:

I thought Jim was amazingly fair and overly generous.. (considering I'm one of the forgetful mob in question) and was ready to take my ball breaking penalty on the chin.

Someone says they are throwing a lawyer into the mix.... jeeeez... I don't know Jim personally, but that would most certainly turn my RAGING BULL switch on.

All I can say again is, Thanks Jim.
 
Over the past several years I have trusted Red's policies & Jim's obvious madness!!! I am one of the owners who has followed the original Stage 2 instructions and has patiently waited for this date to arrive despite the extended wait, my $5k on account for a very long time and the massive quantities of Epic-Ms landing in my backyard ahead of my upgrade. All that being said, there has never been a piece of equipment (and company) that has so greatly impacted my career than the Red One and there has never been a company who has laid out such a generous path to upgrades like Red has. You are right, this fact has kept me patient, loyal and less combative than I would typically be... but I am and will remain indebted.

Save your energy & chatter on this issue and allow Red to deal with this directly & discreetly with the effected parties. I am sure they will find an amicable solution that will allow them/you to get your camera and Red to fulfill their ultimate function of "Revenue"!!! So, can we please get back to shipping Stage 2???

Wishing Jim, Jarred and the whole Red Team well!!!

Cheers,

Prio
 
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