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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Spider-man on EPICs...

All I can say is that the some of the footage I saw looked great. Beautiful images be it in 2D or 3D.

Michael
 
Does anyone here know whether this film is supposed to have a 2K, 4K, or possibly even 5K DI? It'd be a little disappointing to see one of the first films shot with the EPIC have a 2K DI...
 
Keegan O'Brien said:
Does anyone here know whether this film is supposed to have a 2K, 4K, or possibly even 5K DI? It'd be a little disappointing to see one of the first films shot with the EPIC have a 2K DI...
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You have nothing to worry about. It isn't being done in 2K. More to the point, you'd be surprised (possibly even flabbergasted at some of the titles) to see the list of films that have had 4K DI in the past three years. 4K is the new 2K. :party:
 
L. Langer said:
You have nothing to worry about. It isn't being done in 2K. More to the point, you'd be surprised (possibly even flabbergasted at some of the titles) to see the list of films that have had 4K DI in the past three years. 4K is the new 2K. :party:
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I consider myself pretty aware of the films with 4K DI's; if you have any titles that you think I may not know have 4K DI's please share. I would disagree however to the sentiment that 4K is the new 2K. The majority of Hollywood released films still have 2K DI's, which is why I'm slightly worried as to the final export resolution of Spiderman.
 
I suspect that Sony will want to master and archive it in 4K, but probably the 3D DCP release will be 2K per eye. But it would be nice if the IMAX 3D version worked from a 4K master per eye.

As for all the visual efx, who knows if they will be done at 2K or 4K. "Spider-Man 2" had a 4K D.I. but all the efx work was 2K.
 
If the film finished 4K each eye, for IMAX 70mm 3D prints, I wonder how far along through the post process the picture could stay RAW? Could a 4K edit of original R3D files be sent to IMAX for direct DMR to 70mm IMAX film print?
 
Generally IMAX DMR blow-ups work from a finished master that is color-corrected so that it has the same look as the regular release in terms of contrast, color saturation, etc. It's a bit different with the Christopher Nolan movies since those don't go through a D.I. first.

So I doubt that the IMAX people want to regrade the entire movie from scratch working with R3D files. Besides, if the movie is finished to 4K RGB anyway, what's the point of redoing all the transcoding and color-correction work? There wouldn't be a gain in resolution.
 
Just in theory, I was wondering if DMR to IMAX could be cleaner working directly from 5K RAW, skipping the non-DMR'd 4K render in between? Could they noise reduce off the color-corrected R3d files straight to 70mm film out? Or render 4K after a RAW DMR to 4K RGB?
 
@Tom: It would potentially be advantageous working off the red raw files, but most DMR processes work off of cineon files, and so there would need to be an intermediary conversoin process anyways to convert the raw red files to an appropriate log color space for film out. Creating film LOG files out of any digital color space is not an easy science and few would be willing to re-invent the wheel.

David Mullen is correct that all the studios choose to supply IMAX with mastered files that are already color corrected by superstar colorists at Company 3, and elsewhere.

However, he's incorrect in presuming that IMAX DCPs are not 4K masters. They are 4K masters which are often (but not always) up rezzed from source data that is 1920x1080 or 2K. The projection systems are however 2K and they must do an internal conversion / downsampling of some sort the benefits of which I don't know.
 
Jason Rudd said:
@Tom: It would potentially be advantageous working off the red raw files, but most DMR processes work off of cineon files, and so there would need to be an intermediary conversoin process anyways to convert the raw red files to an appropriate log color space for film out. Creating film LOG files out of any digital color space is not an easy science and few would be willing to re-invent the wheel.
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Why not remove the Cineon 4K render from the equation entirely?
 
The systems that make up the current selection of digital to film recording are built on software that require cineon files in 10 bit or 12 bit log space.

Its definitately possible to go directly from red raw shooting straight to film stock with some sort of control over color/blacks/contrast/sharpness etc. But who is going to design the software to achieve this when it's no secret that film is on its way out as a distribution format? It would take millions of dollars I'm sure. Little chance of making your money back.

Tom Lowe said:
Why not remove the Cineon 4K render from the equation entirely?
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I have a quick question about the film. Is it being filmed 100% on Red Epics or are they using film or other digital cameras in addition to the Epics? John stated somewhere that they had 4 beta Epic bodies (2 3D rigs) but that seems a little low for a film this size. Did they get more bodies from Red? Just curious.
 
Tom Lowe said:
Why not remove the Cineon 4K render from the equation entirely?
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Because you are going to film? You're going to have to end up creating an RGB Log file anyway, which is what the D.I. process is going to do, so I don't see the point of the IMAX people having to redo the transcoding and color-correction if all the work was done already to create a 4K master. You can't just put a R3D RAW file onto a piece of film, you have to convert it to RGB color and it has to be in the correct gamma for putting onto film.

Also, keep in mind that there is no IMAX laser recorder, film-outs to 15-perf 65mm use a CRT recorder going to camera negative stock (usually something like Kodak 50D.)

I'm just not sure what you are getting at Tom, what advantage would there be in redoing the D.I. if it was done at 4K in the first place? Because you think that a 5K D.I. would be better than a 4K D.I. for IMAX? Perhaps, but you are getting into hair-splitting territory.
 
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Steve Dent said:
Whether or not they go 4K will probably depend on how much CG ends up being in the film... wonder who's the effects house?
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A picture on the scale of a Spider Man film will usually have a lead VFX vendor, but will involve many other VFX vendors as well. That's one of the reasons that a number of us are working on image interchange formats and methods to ensure better consistency, regardless of who's doing the work.
 
Andrew Rieger said:
I have a quick question about the film. Is it being filmed 100% on Red Epics or are they using film or other digital cameras in addition to the Epics? John stated somewhere that they had 4 beta Epic bodies (2 3D rigs) but that seems a little low for a film this size. Did they get more bodies from Red? Just curious.
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Not speaking for the production because I'm not involved, but I would think that between first and second unit (and other specialty units when they are needed) they would likely use additional gear like a Phantom and possibly some film before they're done.
 
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