Sound Devices 633 and Timecode for Weapon / Scarlet-W

[Curran Giddens]

I'm new to audio and Timecode so any step-by-step instructions would be greatly appreciated.

We recently picked up a Sound Devices 633 mixer / recorder that has an integrated Ambient timecode generator and a 5-pin LEMO port. I will be using the HDMI version of the RED DSMC2 Jetpack module that has the 4-pin 0B Sync port. I won't have the HDSDI version with the 5-pin Timecode. I was thinking about using my RED 3BNC-to-00 Sync cable which has Timecode on a BNC adapter and then getting a 5-pin LEMO to BNC adapter for the SD633.
Will this adapter work?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...cording_LTC_OUT_LTC_OUT_Lockit_Time_Code.html


Or should I just get this cable and not use the RED Sync cable:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...rding_tc_sync_epic_scarlet_rc_sync_cable.html


Then I just temporarily connect the camera to the 633 to jam sync the timecode? Will I have to re-jam it after a few hours or after rebooting the camera?

Any tips are also appreciated. or recommendations for microphones etc.

 

[Doug Beatty]

1. TC I/O Cable for 633
2. Female BNC Turnaround for TC Out BNC on the 633 Cable -> Red Sync Cable

Unless you want to tether the 633 to camera, you will need to invest in a lockit box that can stay powered for 12+ hours. Otherwise, every time you power down camera you would need to re-jam from the recorder, and even then, drift is likely over the course of several hours...you don't want to live life like this.

Buy 2x of these, a cable to jam + invest in 8x AAA rechargeables.

People will chime in about Tentacle sync boxes, but in the field I prefer using standard BNC with locking connectors on both sides. I like the idea of being able to swap batteries, and Mozegear (US company) has incredible customer service. You can also change frame rates and level in the field without needing to use a laptop.

(*pic is of lemo version just to show you scale. you want the Q28-BNC)

As for mics, it all depends on what you will do and how much you want to spend. Dialogue? Events? Documentary? Rent before you buy:

Supers (Shotgun): Sanken CS3e, DPA 4017b, Schoeps CMIT5u - Suited for exteriors or big spaces
Hypers: Sennheiser MKH50, Schoeps CMC641, Neumann KM185 - Suited for interior dialogue

Put these on the end of a cabled KTek 13-15' pole and you could do a lot worse.

 

[Curran Giddens]

Thanks Doug! I had heard about the Tentacle but not the Mozgear.

We do plan on doing wireless TC but I wanted to wait for one of the Offhollywood modules with built-in ACN boards. Then just a tiny Lockit on the 633? We are starting out slow with just a few scenes here and there.

We are definitely leaning towards the MHK50 as there is a good amount of interior dialog and we only want to buy one boom mic for now. I figure we can use it outdoors too with enough wind protection. I think the K-tek Carbon boom pole would be nice for whoever ends up handling it all day. I like how you can have the cable connect to the side near the bottom instead of sticking directly out the bottom.


Here is what I have so far for the boom setup:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/79497-REG/Sennheiser_MKH50_P48_MKH_50_Microphone.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/880280-REG/Rycote_041118_INV_8_Microphone_Suspension.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/267844-REG/Rycote_033013_5cm_Large_Hole_Softie.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...100CCR_KEG_100CCR_Avalon_Series_Graphite.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/461404-REG/Rode_BAG_BP.html



I already have a DPA 4061 lav kit and would love to get the DPA 4017b shotgun eventually. We can only afford one good mic right now. I also have two of the Sennheiser G3 wireless lav setups. I'm hoping to use the DPA lav with the G3 wireless, just need to buy an adapter.

 

[Doug Beatty]

Thanks Doug! I had heard about the Tentacle but not the Mozgear.
I'm hoping to use the DPA lav with the G3 wireless, just need to buy an adapter.

This is a red flag...my advice? You are throwing good money chasing bad results. For sit down interviews G3s can cut it, but if you are doing serious narrative work, don't go there.

Hire a boom op and use the G3s as IFB (one for the director and one for the boom OP), or sell them and use the money towards renting or buying a super for exteriors and second boom. Be careful with your blocking, editing decisions, mic placement and locations and you can get great results.

If you still can't find a way to make a show without wireless mics, then hire a pro. If you can't afford a pro and must have hidden wireless mics- I'll just say that it will be a wonderful learning opportunity.

Good luck!

 

[Curran Giddens]

You're right, the G3's aren't actually mine anyway. They were bought by the publishing co I do some work for to use specifically for interviews, only on YouTube. We will just skip the wireless until we can afford to hire a pro with their own wireless system.

 

[Christopher Mills]

Mozegear Tig, etc

Mozegear Tig, etc

As a biased owner of the Mozegear piece, and one of the beta testers who influenced their inclusion of the BNC socket, that's the piece I suggest. As someone who has done a lot of EPK/Documentary work, I highly endorse your selection of the 633. the Tig comes with easy to understand instructions, just read them and follow them. my timecode tip is that 90% of problems come from the cables. Make sure you have the correct ones, and a spare for each type. Many times you use a different cable for input to the box and output, even if they look very similar (I'm looking at you, AMBIENT!) I have used Sennheiser G series wireless, Lectrosonics (all models) and Zaxcom Wireless. The digital hybrid Lectro and the Zaxcom digital do sound better to me than the Sennheisers, but a good mic on the Sennheiser's (even an OST or a COuntryman EMW or TRAM) will improve the results to a completely usable level. You can and should ignore the included mics in a G2 or G3 kit. I am accustomed to using a lav mic and a boom mic for sit down interviews. This is a huge safety net for your production. Now a heresy I am going to propose is that you can use the 3.5mm output jacks on the 633 to feed a DSLR, and PROBABLY a Scarlet W. Experiment first.. even thought I consider this a scratch track option only.. I know it works on a DSLR, because I have done it.

 

[Jon Dishler]

I am getting the Scarlet W (actually already received) and the V-Lock DSMC2 Base I/O (March) and have a 633 along with an XL-LB2 cable and a BNC bridge connector you show above. Are you saying that I should get the BNC version of the Tig Q28 and will be set? Are you then suggesting using the microphone input for the time code (3.5 mini in expander) and not use the sync port that is provided in the Base IO expander? I see that the sync port on this has a 4 pin lemo and not sure what to make of that. Currently I use the SL-LB2 to go to a time code sync on another camera which has a BNC connector. I don't mind tethering the 633 off the camera at times but still not sure how to make this work even if they stay connected without the separate Tig type unit? Thanks for any help. What would be nice if the starting of recording on the camera would trigger the 633 to start recording automatically -- that is how I have it now, then I just sync the scratch camera audio to the 633 audio and do not use time code. BTW I use Wisycom wireless with my 633 and the audio is fantastic in the field. Of course wired studio mic when possible.

 

[Phil Holland]

Something I can add here. Weapon (DSMC2 body like Scarlet-W) holds timecode pretty damn well. Not experiencing any real drift over the course of a shooting day on Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Ambient, Denecke, or Zoom syncs. Quick sync in via the recorder, slate, or whatever is generating. I usually pop another sync after lunch, but it's holding really well. This was something I tested pretty hard back when I first got the camera.

I'm thinking about adding a wireless component to sync in the near future just for convenience, but overall it's been super easy.

 

[Andreas Mendritzki]

Something I can add here. Weapon (DSMC2 body like Scarlet-W) holds timecode pretty damn well. Not experiencing any real drift over the course of a shooting day on Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Ambient, Denecke, or Zoom syncs. Quick sync in via the recorder, slate, or whatever is generating. I usually pop another sync after lunch, but it's holding really well. This was something I tested pretty hard back when I first got the camera.

I'm thinking about adding a wireless component to sync in the near future just for convenience, but overall it's been super easy.

I assume you're keeping yourself powered all day long Phil? Or is it holding even over shut-downs/power cycles?

 

[Michael Lindsay]

I assume you're keeping yourself powered all day long Phil? Or is it holding even over shut-downs/power cycles?

Good question.. The Epic Dragon held ok until battery changes..

 

[Phil Holland]

I assume you're keeping yourself powered all day long Phil? Or is it holding even over shut-downs/power cycles?

Usually, but it appears to hold well when powering down actually.

 

[Eric Emerick]

I'm seeing noticeable drift after just 5 minutes, almost a full second and it continues to drift, Epic Dragon and SD 633, wtf?!

 

[Christopher Mills]

I'm seeing noticeable drift after just 5 minutes, almost a full second and it continues to drift, Epic Dragon and SD 633, wtf?!

Check your camera menu settings. It's likely the Epic is not actually accepting the TC input (you are hard lined, right?). If you are not constantly connected to a TC source, most cameras will drift.

I worked with a very early production Epic Dragon that would not accept incoming TC at all, and would give us a different random internally generated TC time of day on each power cycle. We used a TC slate for that day's work, manually synced, and traded the camera back in at the rental house for a better behaved one.