Sony F5 and F55...

[M Most]

There are TV shows done in 4k, but the broadcast delivery mechanism just isn't available yet.

I don't know of even one. There are a few shot that way, but all of them are finished and delivered as HD video. The one that came closest, ironically, was "Made In Jersey," which would likely have had 4K versions made at some point had it not been cancelled after only two airings. But you would have to enlighten me as to what you might referring to, because I'm not aware of any shows being completed that way.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Someone hasn't been paying attention. :laugh:

 

[Jannard]

Agree to disagree. We have the advantage of a 40' screen at RED Studios. It is the widow maker. If 1080P was truly the holy grail... tell me why every company in the industry is scrambling to make a 4K/5K sensor. Sorry... just not buying it.

Jim

Really? Over the last 6 years or so I've seen a substantial number of films both shot and projected in 1080p and 2K, and many have looked just as beautiful and detailed as anything I've seen shot and projected on film (you can probably blame most of that on good old circle-of-confusion).

You won't hear me argue that less is more, but I just can't agree that 1080p isn't an acceptable replacement for film - there's simply too many films out there whose visual quality suggests otherwise.

 

[Jannard]

It isn't about today.... it is about tomorrow. What happens when 4K is the standard in the home and up-rezzing isn't an option?

Jim

I don't know of even one. There are a few shot that way, but all of them are finished and delivered as HD video. The one that came closest, ironically, was "Made In Jersey," which would likely have had 4K versions made at some point had it not been cancelled after only two airings. But you would have to enlighten me as to what you might referring to, because I'm not aware of any shows being completed that way.

 

[Mark K.]

Agree to disagree. We have the advantage of a 40' screen at RED Studios. It is the widow maker. If 1080P was truly the holy grail... tell me why every company in the industry is scrambling to make a 4K/5K sensor. Sorry... just not buying it.

Jim

How big is the theatre itself Jim? (relative to regular cinemas). The key thing that's struck me about 4K projection is that it looks spectacular close-up, but at regular viewing distances, circle of confusion seems to render most of the added detail a moot point.

At any rate, 4K's lovely to have in post. I'm just not so convinced by its projection thus far (outside of smaller theatres).

 

[Jannard]

You can see the difference on a 10' screen.

Again... if 1080P was good enough, why is (A) working feverishly on a 4/5K sensor?

Jim

How big is the theatre itself Jim? (relative to regular cinemas). The key thing that's struck me about 4K projection is that it looks spectacular close-up, but at regular viewing distances, circle of confusion seems to render most of the added detail a moot point.

 

[Michael P. Schmidt]

now actually that is a good post (for real)....reasonable ...almost

...just wondering if that "shitty" 2k/1080p ALEXA is so "bad" why are movies like 007 Skyfall or The Avengers (and many others) are shot on that cam ...and even more "shocking" ppl / viewers seem to pretty much like it and say it looked awesome ...(btw tha goes fo a lot of TV shows)

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

Jim,
Yes You were right to be the leader I this movement to 4K. And as much as the acalades should go to you we see the market just move forward. But it will be interesting to see how Arri addresses this.
They have become the major competition and have publicly stated that their resolution is enough. This Sony announcement should finally force their hand.

People think the Sony cameras weaken Red"s position. No, they may lose some sales but in the end will be strong

 

[Sergio Perez]

Now, Jim and Red team, its time to think about dynamic range, frame rates, compression, bit rate and of course form factor, modularity, upgrade path, etc. The competition copyed everything, but you guys are the pioneers, the workflow is solid, the system proven. What comes next? Should we be excited?

 

[Mark K.]

You can see the difference on a 10' screen.

Again... if 1080P was good enough, why is (A) working feverishly on a 4/5K sensor?

Jim

Most likely to sell televisions I imagine!

 

[peter roehsler]

After having used R1 for theatrical work I ventured into the 2K territory for one project where the director insisted on a 'really small' camera. I had not yet gotten my Epic and renting an Epic M was not an option. All the way through the DI session I felt like I was looking at offline proxies ...

 

[Jannard]

Does anyone actually look at the difference before posting?

I'm now offline. I need a break. This stuff is too taxing to deal with.

Jim

Most likely to sell televisions I imagine!

 

[Marc Wielage]

Sony has come to the party. God love them. The F65 is a true 4K camera (although not 8K as it is advertised). The F5 and F55 are 4K cameras soon to be released.

Very classy response, Jim.

I agree, the more manufacturers support 4K, the sooner it'll be a standard for production and post, and the more options there will be for users. And I have no doubt that Red will be very competitive in this market.

I'd also agree that Arri Alexa is in a very difficult position at the moment, and they stand the most to lose over the next year, if they don't respond soon.

 

[Casey Green]

Jim,

Thanks for the respectful tipping of the hat to Sony. You are a true gentleman.

You must recognize, however, that it also is Sony who has tipped it's hat to RED by finally acknowledging that Sony's mantra of "1080p is good enough" was just used as marketing BS while they furiously were developing 4K (what RED had been preaching for years). I just feel bad for those folks that invested over and over in camera after camera.

Sony has tried to mimic RED in so many ways with these latest offerings... from 4K, RAW, modular design, and even promised firmware / feature upgrades.

You and all of those who worked so hard over the past several years should feel incredibly proud tonight. You will go down in history as those who pioneered modern digital cinema and are continuing to do so... and to think, you are just getting started. Thanks once again.

 

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

While I admire your optimism (and being a R1 and Epic owner since almost day 1), I am not sure about the wide akzeptance of 4K at the end user.
I am coming from the audio world. Where we have had vastly superior audio delivery formats for decades.
And almost everybody switched to mp3.
Because it sounds "almost as good" as CD.
It hurts me every time I dither down my beautiful 24bit masters to 16bit/44,1KHz.
The difference is NOT subtle. And then, ... what comes out of the tvspeaker..... I usually want to shoot myself.

I see the same happening to my 5K imagery.

But ok, ok ... I believe in "best possibel aqusisition". Thats why I actually have an Epic. And audio gear where only dogs can hear the difference.

I just cannot bring myself to believe in wide spread 4K distribution networks.

Jochen

 

[Ketch Rossi]

I couldn't agree with you more Jim, and even so I am happy of recent announcements by other companies, I am still one of those guys that advocates strongly, "Credit do were Credit is do" but I guess you are cooler then I, and only you care that they acknowledge what you knew and proposed and executed all along since the past 6 years, and at the end what is truly important it is indeed that the industry finally has come ot senses and made 4k the new standard to be, period.

 

[Ryan Fitzgerald]

Most likely to sell televisions I imagine!

To sell a new product, it usually has to be better than its predecessor. Wouldn't you say, Mark K? With all due respect, let me ask you... What is the selling point of a 4k TV?

 

[oleg kaizerman]

not even one camera sell 1 more ticket in the cinema or brings more rating , the audience doesn't care if it 1080 or 4 k or 5 k .
99 % of people who on that board will never shoot for something that is bigger then 60 inch set .
for me red did not change the world , they made it worse , they gave the opportunity for idiots to dump the industry with no money productions and tones of projects which have no distribution and eventually been sold for nothing ' every one could be a "foolmaker" for cinema , isnt it a sony slogan from the past ?
spy kids 2 was shot on 900F and it still better picture then 100s which been shot on red
so who cares if it 4k or 2 k or 1080 , you care only for how comfortable your tool is , that's what arri understand
and something about sony , they came with best camecorder ever made for human shoulder in 88 bvw 200 , they came with detachable ccd sensor from camera in 91 BVP 70T AND THEY DO HAVE THE BEST CAMERA NOW F65-ITS A FACT
RED is a good product , just it not really suits 95% of the working class heroes way they make money , and you need to do something with your cooling system as well
by they way i started at 86 with ikegami 79, 95 and bvp -30 and even then the sony was better and more reliable but every one was talking about how good the ikegami looks and lost money as the camera was going out of registration after 3 hours of work

 

[Ryan Fitzgerald]

spy kids 2 was shot on 900F and it still better picture then 100s which been shot on red

No offence Oleg... but aren't you a Sound Guy? Can't remember the last time anyone took photography advice from an Audio specialist... let alone one who thinks Spy Kids 2 rivals anything photographically.

 

[Thor Melsted]

not even one camera sell 1 more ticket in the cinema or brings more rating , the audience doesn't care if it 1080 or 4 k or 5 k .

I've bought tickets because of the camera used to shoot a project - and I've sought out 4K screenings when available, so that's patently false.

spy kids 2 was shot on 900F and it still better picture then 100s which been shot on red

If you're trying to undermine your credibility on the subject of image quality, that will do nicely - with all due respect to Robert Rodriguez.

THEY DO HAVE THE BEST CAMERA NOW F65-ITS A FACT

My farts smell better than yours - IT'S A FACT.
See, writing "it's a fact" after you state an opinion doesn't mean anything