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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony and Panasonic - impact on RED!

I don't think we will see the S35 Scarlet until the initial rush demand for Epics is satisfied. They won't use the sensors on the lower model until there is a surplus of them.
2/3" is a separate program altogether and should be released as soon as it is ready. But the focus will certainly be on Epic until production is solidly in place.
 
Thomas Church said:
Well, you can call it a prediction based on the way things have been going since the original Scarlet announcement.

There's EPIC to release, then there's Scarlet 2/3 fixed. Then there's Scarlet 2/3 interchangeable.

While I understand that Scarlet S35 will probably be a stripped down EPIC, you should also consider that RED probably won't release them so close together so they won't cannibalize each other.

If Scarlet S35 is out a few months after EPIC for example, some people might pick two of them instead of an EPIC to shoot 3D, and it will still be cheaper.

If it comes out right after Scarlet 2/3 a lot of people might skip that and spend a little more in order to be able to use their DSLR lenses. (I would be one of those)

It's all very tricky.

Hopefully I'm wrong and RED will release them as fast as possible.
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But each of your if/then scenarios assumes people have perfect backward knowledge. And, that there are no differences and advantages to one camera over the other.

If I knew that the S35 Scarlet would be available in Feb, maybe I would skip a 2/3" fixed in December. But how would I know that? Would I wait until May? October? Indefinitely? How long?

If S35 Scarlet was available before one could take delivery one an Epic, perhaps there are those who would take that option. But, again, they would have to know ahead of time, with some certainty, that it would be the case. And how likely is it that the Scarlet will meet their needs? Will an S35 Scarlet really cannibalize the market for Epic? A $7000 brain vs. one for $28,000? Honestly, if I were a candidate for an Epic, but thought a Scarlet S35 would meet my needs, I think I'd either rent or buy an MX ONE in the interim rather than spend 4X more than what I need to.

I suspect that those who really can make use of an Epic, and justify the cost, will NOT look back and wish they'd waited for Scarlet S35. It is just not likely to meet their needs. Again, just my opinion.
 
The reason to buy a 2/3" Scarlet is because you want that image format and the features it will deliver. Epic like performance in a 16mm sized format.
 
I'd perhaps wait for GH2 and see what it delivers... I have heard from a reliable source 1080/60p and a bitrate increase... plus less aliasing.

That could tide people over until their Scarlet of choice arrives.

With PL mount and electronic Canon mount ready for 4/3" release... your lenses would be ready for Scarlet S35 too. I'm sure an electronic Nikon mount is on the cards too.

Good times.
 
I'm only interested in the S35 Scarlet. It seems like a way of having a RED, but (even) more affordable. I couldn't afford a RED One, but a Scarlet maybe seems doable (depending on when it will be released and with which final prices for camera, modules, etc.)

I also hope that with the development of the Epic going as it is, that an S35 Scarlet would follow very quickly...
 
Don't be in illusion! Scarlet of course more coll then panas and Sony..but..time! We will be able to buy Scarlet in 2012 (the best way) and Panas in a few month and Sony 6-7 month!
So I think mani people will buy panas or Sony anw will be steel waiting for Scarlet in 1-2 years! Or 3 Who knows!
 
Steve Kahn said:
Exactly. It is never soon enough.

There is one fixed lens Scarlet prototype that I have seen. To me this option is too little too late.

The AF100 is (planned) to ship at the end of the year.

So that I can know and be an educated consumer... is there any official word (I cannot find it) when a large chip Scarlet with a pretty damn universal lens mount like the micro four thirds (which I can affix from PL mount to 30 year old SLR lenses) will ship?

You see, those features are sooooo tempting.
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And only one AF100 prototype exhibited, and no released film clips but some selected DPs get to shoot and exhibit footage once before destroying since the cam is only 70% designed yet. And how does this varu substantially from EPIC/Scarlet? One could argue that RED is further along.
 
Jim Retar said:
I'd perhaps wait for GH2 and see what it delivers... I have heard from a reliable source 1080/60p and a bitrate increase... plus less aliasing.

That could tide people over until their Scarlet of choice arrives.

With PL mount and electronic Canon mount ready for 4/3" release... your lenses would be ready for Scarlet S35 too. I'm sure an electronic Nikon mount is on the cards too.

Good times.
Click to expand...

At least for me a DSLR of any kind is not an acceptable substitute for a practical motion production camera. By the time you fit it out for anything other than home movies, you have spent AF100, or Scarlet 2/3" money. I would rather save my money and wait.
 
Yes, but now there is free space on the market - it is camera up to 15-20K for cinema! 20K is not enough for RED - meybe used RED as I want and there is not any altternatives..So panasonic AF100 will be in time but I think Sony more cool for cinema!
 
I'm sorry guys, but if RED is gonna do what you are all talking about, I'm not buying.

IMHO, it's silly to say "Hey, let's not release this finished S35 Scarlet in hopes of not hurting sales of our more expensive camera." Phooey. If they have it ready to be released, then release it. Don't make me sit around waiting, watching projects shot with the EPIC, when I could be out shooting with the Scarlet!

These two cameras seem, to me, to be further apart in market categories than most think. I mean, I would love to have an EPIC, but I don't have $40k+, and could never dream of owning a camera that cost that much. But, I could find $15k. Really, who here is on-the-fence about which one they will buy (NOT which one they want)?

The EPIC is simply NOT the camera for a guy that could get the job done with a Scarlet! And vicey versy, there are things that the EPIC owner will do and need to do with his camera that a Scarlet simply can't.

The line doesn't seem very fuzzy to me. If the S35 Scarlet is ready...GIMME!!!
 
you can buy another camera, but think a moment about the resale value this camera will have in 24 months.

red holds it value due to reds policy.

but its your money
 
David Rasberry said:
At least for me a DSLR of any kind is not an acceptable substitute for a practical motion production camera. By the time you fit it out for anything other than home movies, you have spent AF100, or Scarlet 2/3" money. I would rather save my money and wait.
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So, you don't think the Scarlet will need to be kitted out?

Matte box, filters, follow focus.... the DSLR kit should fit perfectly onto a Scarlet. I don't see the concern.

I kitted out my 5DII for under a grand and expect the kit to work fine with Scarlet, maybe with some minor adjustments.
 
Jim Retar said:
So, you don't think the Scarlet will need to be kitted out?

Matte box, filters, follow focus.... the DSLR kit should fit perfectly onto a Scarlet. I don't see the concern.

I kitted out my 5DII for under a grand and expect the kit to work fine with Scarlet, maybe with some minor adjustments.
Click to expand...

Those lens mounts for 4/3, PL $1150 for the HOt Rod version, the only good one. Birger electronic Canon mount? For Red 1 it is about $1300.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
you can buy another camera, but think a moment about the resale value this camera will have in 24 months.

red holds it value due to reds policy.
Click to expand...

Well, a RED One will be worth, what, $5k when Scarlet S35 launches. Technology always depreciates.... just a fact of life.

With these all-in-one cameras like a AF-100... resale is actually easier.

That said... I think the Epic/Scarlet range will hold their value for many years due to the modular format.
 
David Rasberry said:
Those lens mounts for 4/3, PL $1150 for the HOt Rod version, the only good one. Birger electronic Canon mount? For Red 1 it is about $1300.
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I've heard about the EOS mount. Very pricey! I'm not sure how one can justify that considering there's no glass but just a ring and electronic pass through.
 
Steve Kahn said:
I've heard about the EOS mount. Very pricey! I'm not sure how one can justify that considering there's no glass but just a ring and electronic pass through.
Click to expand...

There are electronic lens controls on the EOS mount, microprocessor, and a couple of years of work invested reverse engineering the lens control protocols for each lens.
 
David Rasberry said:
Those lens mounts for 4/3, PL $1150 for the HOt Rod version, the only good one. Birger electronic Canon mount? For Red 1 it is about $1300.
Click to expand...

ok.. around $2k (plus cost of GH2) for a kitted out PL camera. Sounds fine to me.... Will make for a perfect B cam or A cam when shallow DOF is required.

I'm sure we will know more about Scarlet launch by the time GH2 and AF-100 are launched... so this may all be redundant.

If the status is still "the bad news is delays... the good news is it is better than your wildest dreams".... Then it is time to spend some cash elsewhere.
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
why do u think s35 scarlet is ready? no facts out there asfaik
it is clearly stated that the rollout will be epic, fixed scarlet, non fixed scarlet, s35 scarlet.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that? I know that Jim said something like Scarlet running about 6 months behind Epic, but I don't know about the order in which they are working on the different Scarlets...
 
David Rasberry said:
There are electronic lens controls on the EOS mount, microprocessor, and a couple of years of work invested reverse engineering the lens control protocols for each lens.
Click to expand...
Ah. Thank you. Still at that price I'd rather stay full manual and just do things the old fashioned way (I like lenses that actually have F-stop rings).

There's a similar EOS mount for the AF100 probably priced the same as for the Red. In a way this is a bit crazy because these aren't PL lenses here. Likely in many cases the EOS lens will cost less than the mount.
 
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