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David Peterson
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I'm *SURE* many early users of steadicams found it just as infuriating to get the hang of as many newbie users or steadicams today find it.
Kinda like with gimbals...
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Sony A6300 announced!! 4K internal! S-log3!! 1080 120fps! 4K for the masses :-P ;-)
- Thread starter David Peterson
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I'm *SURE* many early users of steadicams found it just as infuriating to get the hang of as many newbie users or steadicams today find it.
Kinda like with gimbals...
Jacek Zakowicz
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Gimbals are missing one key feature- LATERAL stabilization. Which happens to be the only one you really need. Rotational stabilization can "cheat" it to a point. but can't replace it
Add to that the low cost, the apparent instant pro appearance and you have very appealing tool. The results(product created with this tool)... vary (put mildly) ;-)
They are of course guys and girls that will master the skill and have outstanding results. One could argue that the same guys and girls that master gimbals would master easy rig, black arm, etc. etc....
Like with any tool - it's the craftsman that matters most.
If gimbals gave you motivation needed to become master of your craft- more power to gimbal and you I say ;-)
however it's still missing the key feature and the product shows it more than not....
Now back to the 6300- is it the sharpest camera or not? How do they downconvert?- before or after debayer?
What gets recorded?
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Hrvoje Simic
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Yes it is true. They had real time full sensor readout downconversion on A5100 as well.
It is only announced today. It should be pretty good in detail department but the question is rolling shutter performance.
Mike P.
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I mean, if the BSI does better rolling shutter, the A6300 + speed booster + FF35 glass could be a real nice combo.
Bruce Allen
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This is the 3rd camera that does the 6K -> 4K trick.
NX1 did it. A7r Mk2 in s35 mode also does it (the a7r2 has an approx 8K sensor, so in S35 mode it uses the 6K center crop).
Maybe they de-Bayer, then scale down. Or maybe they have a modified algorithm that does the de-Bayer and downscale at the same time (eg like the old Canon C300, which would produce an oversampled HD signal from the 4K Bayer sensor in one step).
In either event, the result looks pretty darn good. Not an amazing jump (probably their algorithms aren't the highest quality, seeing as they have to scale 6K->4K up to 30x per second without killing the tiny battery / overheating!) but certainly a good-looking image.
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Patrick Tresch
Well-known member
You must be right Bruce,
it's a huge amount of processing needed, as there are no fans ;-) and a little battery and no Redrocket, there must be some trick...
Instead of pixel binning, pixel averaging included in the debayer process skipping the 6k RGB intermediate?
Pat
BTW how does the Weapon do the 6k -> 4k downscale for the prores?
it's a huge amount of processing needed, as there are no fans ;-) and a little battery and no Redrocket, there must be some trick...
Instead of pixel binning, pixel averaging included in the debayer process skipping the 6k RGB intermediate?
Pat
BTW how does the Weapon do the 6k -> 4k downscale for the prores?
Erick Liu
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Ive always felt like sony has been on the leading edge of consumer electronics, but they keep fooling consumers into thinking things like 4K is just 3840x2160 or DR doesnt matter
Patrick Tresch
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Sorry I don't understand your statement. A7s has something like 15stops, you mean they should communicate to the masses more over DR than resolution?
Karim D. Ghantous
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As far as the Sony camera goes, I'm a huge fan of their still cameras. I'm thinking of selling my A7 to buy a current model with a smaller sensor. I think it's the best compromise.
And you can do so much with S35 (a better term IMO than APS-C). Speedbooster? Yes. Without Speedbooster? Yes. The bigger sensor is great but S35 lets you use the sweet spot of 35mm lenses. Sony S35 bodies and RF lenses are, in general, an amazing combination. They perform superbly and the setup can be astonishingly small, depending on the model. I also have a 16Mpx NEX body (long discontinued) and that thing is great.
Wayne Morellini
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Red people say BSI is inferior/consumer tech. I say 4kp30 is inferior to to 4kp50 10 bit 4:2:2. Anyway, cool.
I'm a huge fan of filming on my A7R2 - when working with minimal production support it's my first choice. As a stills camera it's quality is pretty insane and I find it fun and intuitive to use. Love the E mount - I've got everything from Leica M's to a vintage Olympus Pen F 38mm ( amazing lens by the way ) Leica R's to modern EF's which I use with pretty solid AF. Speedboosters are fun too - I can swap a 70-200 2.8 into a 50-142 f2 in seconds. I've had all sorts of PL's on there - MKBK' Angenieux 30-80 to Summicron C's to Cooke Anamorphic. Not many ( any ) other cameras that are able to do that in FF or APS. So yes... I have my eyes on the A6300. I like the EVF on the side, Makes sense for people who are right eye dominant and have a nose.
Since this somehow became about Optitek too... I've recently played with an Optitron, it's a cool idea and works OK. The overall concept of using stills glass and built in focus / iris motors for lens control is a great one. I think some new products in the same vein as Optitron are going to hit this year that will be better designed and better manufactured at a similar price so i would hold off until things get a bit better sorted out. At least that's my plan.
Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Since this somehow became about Optitek too... I've recently played with an Optitron, it's a cool idea and works OK. The overall concept of using stills glass and built in focus / iris motors for lens control is a great one. I think some new products in the same vein as Optitron are going to hit this year that will be better designed and better manufactured at a similar price so i would hold off until things get a bit better sorted out. At least that's my plan.
Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Al Lougher
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Two questions:
Better than the 5Dmk2 for stills and video? I still love the image out of the 5D2 but need to upgrade as mine is a little worse for wear. Seems like a nice cheap option, but want to keep my L lenses and maybe use some Leicas.
Would this make a good documentary camera? I'm ramping up to shoot a doc with a pair of c500mk2s but this is a much cheaper option. I want to shoot 4K 24fps but intercut with Dragon. I haven't seen anywhere mention what the record length is internally, anyone know?
Better than the 5Dmk2 for stills and video? I still love the image out of the 5D2 but need to upgrade as mine is a little worse for wear. Seems like a nice cheap option, but want to keep my L lenses and maybe use some Leicas.
Would this make a good documentary camera? I'm ramping up to shoot a doc with a pair of c500mk2s but this is a much cheaper option. I want to shoot 4K 24fps but intercut with Dragon. I haven't seen anywhere mention what the record length is internally, anyone know?
Timothy Jones
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Matt,
Awesome work on your site ! Did you shoot the Sony spots with the Sony cams?
Thanks,
Tim
Awesome work on your site ! Did you shoot the Sony spots with the Sony cams?
Thanks,
Tim
Thanks Tim !
It's a pretty big mix of Cameras, lots of Epic and Epic Dragon in there -
Most recent Walkman - Walkman w410 https://vimeo.com/151730293 was on the A7R2 using Cooke Anamorphics. Pretty silly having the tiny camera attached to those huge lenses, but using 16X9 FF I got a 4k sensor that was 20.3mm x 36mm wide - Crop that a bit at the edges and it was basically a 3k 4:3 ... worked nicely with the Cookes.
Bruce Allen helped me figure it all out and loaned me his Odyssey 7Q to monitor with.
Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Patrick Tresch
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What is BSI?
Ok back illuminated sensor... The cephalopod eye...
Ok back illuminated sensor... The cephalopod eye...
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Hrvoje Simic
Banned
DR - better,
Resolution - better,
Sensitivity - in the same range
Rolling shutter - remains to be seen, A7R2 has similar jello desert in s35 crop > downscale to 4K
Practicality for video - better
Practicality for stills - depends on the type and lens routes, pro work - worse, street photography/travelling - better
Aesthetic - depends on the beholder
Depends on the type of shooting, workflow and post production requirements.
Example - battery life, lack of ND and proper sound options are some limitations. 8 bits are another. Size can be a plus and a minus.
Since there is no specific statement, it should be 29,59 mins.
Philip Lanyon
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Oh man, I really want to love these sony cameras so bad, the specs are obviously miles ahead compared to 5d3 and other dslr and mirrorless cameras. Their size is very appealing , the lens options are fantastic.
I just can't get with the image. Matt, no disrespect, I think the walkman ad is excellent, you obviously know what you are doing and I love all the angles you get, but I'm talking about he image itself, and all images I've seen from A7RII, A7SII, FS5, FS55, FS7 ETC . Something is off, its just thin, or off color, to my eye anyway. Ive seen some decent stills from the A7R2 but I have yet to see a video that blew me away.
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For sure you should use a camera that you think has good image and color, the Walkman shoot is bit of a strange exmple due to the Cooke Anamorphics which are bit weird even amongst anamorphics, good contrast but not great resolution, I was not involved in post and would have colored it a bit less poppy. This was what got me sold on the A7R2 https://vimeo.com/135418762 but there's been tons of interesting work since then. I am not advocating using it instead of anything else, just think it's a great option when small, simple and inexpensive are important qualities.
Matt Uhry
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Hrvoje Simic
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It's the color science.
And someone has invested extensive testing and tweaking in the last few months for that issue to finally become past tense.
Wayne Morellini
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More than that on Sony sensors. I usually can pick a modern Sony on TV by the way it is strongly clipped. I don't know what this generation is like but it has stopped me buying a Sony sensored phone a couple of years ago and since. It sort of tones so far then go to huge patches of clip and colored patches too. Are they things single layered sensors. The color on these consumer end cameras are usually poppy, but this should be better. If they want pop on 8 bitnsnd there is irregularity in sensor color space rendering (or in firmware) then the mistakes are going to be exaggerated.
There is an opportunity for Red, all the consumer grade cameras sold to pro's only have 8 bits, they should have at least 10 bit-16bit 4:2:2 video at a high data rate, that a professional could use and abstract still frames from. They get pro's to buy garnish consumer grade gear at over $5k. Anybody could come in and give them a knock. Who cares if a Sony top sensor can take on a Dragon in a knife fight, it does not matter if you render to 8 bit and don't have 4:2:2 or raw with more bits to take advantage of it, professionally the dragon can obliterate it on this side.
There is an opportunity for Red, all the consumer grade cameras sold to pro's only have 8 bits, they should have at least 10 bit-16bit 4:2:2 video at a high data rate, that a professional could use and abstract still frames from. They get pro's to buy garnish consumer grade gear at over $5k. Anybody could come in and give them a knock. Who cares if a Sony top sensor can take on a Dragon in a knife fight, it does not matter if you render to 8 bit and don't have 4:2:2 or raw with more bits to take advantage of it, professionally the dragon can obliterate it on this side.