Something New....

[Jay A. Kelley]

These new products are nice, but the pricing is a huge, unexpected, and painful hit.

Like many, I had to make a budget for my Epic-X very early on, I never expected current record media to dissappear and be replaced with new far more expensive media (I was a RED-Drive person).

I'm a little scared right now. Too many more surprises like this, and... well.. I dunno...

Sorry for being a downer, but I don't have the huge slush fund you all seem too.

Now I worry what else will change and increase before Epic's release...

Jay

I know this post is not too "pro RED" but I've been on here long enough for people to know how much I love the company, and the camera.. That's why this is so exciting, and frightening.

My only hope at this point is that Jim comes out with some sort of upgrade program, but it's hard to envision a program that would make this affordable. I had a buget of $2000.00 for two RED Drives. That does not even cover the new SSD module now, let alone the drives.

 

[Mark Phelan]

These new products are nice, but the pricing is a huge, unexpected, and painful hit.

Like many, I had to make a budget for my Epic-X very early on, I never expected current record media to dissappear and be replaced with new far more expensive media (I was a RED-Drive person).

I'm a little scared right now. Too many more surprises like this, and... well.. I dunno...

Sorry for being a downer, but I don't have the huge slush fund you all seem too.

Now I worry what else will change and increase before Epic's release...

Jay

My thoughts exactly. Epic is looking like a $40,000 camera investment, once it's all said and done. And we know it's never all done or said. Much to consider for those of us on a budget. Did I just say budget? :smilielol5:

 

[Antony M]

These are Custom RED SSDs.

You will need the RED STATION to read them,

64GB SSD $950.
128GB SSD $1800
256GB SSD $3200

R1 SSD Camera Module $1500
EPIC SSD Camera Module $2500

Ouch.

Guess I will have to stay with the RAID drives then.

But good news is there might be a few people selling their RAIDs now??

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Antony

Not that simple, you need to stay with the current offerings so if there is a problem on set, you can access existing stock. RED RAM, and RED Drives have been discontinued.

Not sure about CF Cards, but I think they have as well.

Jay

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

All around great news. Sure it will cost a bit more but it's negligible based on what it allows us...having at a minimum of 64GB to offload means longer record times -this is incredibly handy for doc work...I did an interview last week in an airplane hangar and had 4x16GB cards and had to offload 4 in the field to the laptop...which meant a lot of multitasking in the field. Thankfully my subject understood the need to pause every 8-9 minutes between questions to swap out and format the CF cards.

I'm reading faster throughput which may mean more framerates at higher resolutions, and maybe some new flavours of Red Code?

 

[Mark Phelan]

Let me add however, I'm excited by these developments and I knew this was going to be like grabbing a tiger by the tail. Just gotta hold on for the wild ride!

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

I just have got a "crazy" idea that new 1.8" SSD slot maybe would add and enable shooting 1080p Apple ProRes 422/4444 on R1-MX of course that would be also connected with new firmware.

IBC 2010 announcement???!!!

Shock in competitor's A headquarters.???!!!

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

These new products are nice, but the pricing is a huge, unexpected, and painful hit.

Like many, I had to make a budget for my Epic-X very early on, I never expected current record media to dissappear and be replaced with new far more expensive media (I was a RED-Drive person).

I'm a little scared right now. Too many more surprises like this, and... well.. I dunno...

Sorry for being a downer, but I don't have the huge slush fund you all seem too.

Now I worry what else will change and increase before Epic's release...

Jay

I know this post is not too "pro RED" but I've been on here long enough for people to know how much I love the company, and the camera.. That's why this is so exciting, and frightening.

My only hope at this point is that Jim comes out with some sort of upgrade program, but it's hard to envision a program that would make this affordable. I had a buget of $2000.00 for two RED Drives. That does not even cover the new SSD module now, let alone the drives.

I feel kinda the same way. I was budgeting Epic off the $1500 SSD module and $1500 128GB SSD's like Jim had posted before. A $300 jump in the 128 GB SSD's aren't terrible, but it does hurt. A $1000 jump in the SSD module really really hurts. It also hurts to spend $1500 on an SSD module for the RED.

I also agree in your other post about kinda being forced to stay with the times when it comes to media now that they've stopped making the RED Drives. It's like buying a car and then suddenly they tell you they no longer make a certain kind of gas it requires.

Matthew

 

[Zul Y]

Can the Fixed lens scarlet support this side module? It looks to be about as long as an Epic and can support the length of the 1.8" SSD from what I can tell.


If not, is the 1.8" back module still in the pipeline so that we may add SSD to Scarlet?

KO

Yes indeed...

Im confused...So it's a yes to which question? lol

I'm gonna ask anyway: So can this new side SSD module work on ANY Epic or Scarlet cameras?

 

[Jon B.]

I love it.

Can we install these ourselves? This isn't something we need to send back to Red right?...

 

[Stephen Matthews]

We are in a era of constant new technology and on the bleeding edge. I'm not surprised things like this happen it's to be expected if you want to buy from a company like red who decides to add new technology to the current options rather than waiting a year and releasing a whole new camera.

If scarlet packages are to stay affordable and near the same price I assume the side cf module will still exist for that as well as the 16GB. So I would also assume that if you want you will still be able to mount a side cf module to epic and use 16GB cards with it. Now this is obviously not the best solution, not large enough media, and can't support higher redcode rates as well as frame rates and most likely HDRx, but these are all the reasons why red has come out with the new side SSD module. It's all about modularity as they say and I have to assume these options are still open for anyone who wants to go this route (as long as the camera is not far to restricted in what redcode and frame rates it can use.)

I know some may not like this as they are on a fixed budget but I believe if you are going for the epic in the first place this additional investment should be a no brainier. Really I know we all get excited but none of our cost projections on how much a unreleased camera will cost us is perfectly accurate until the day the first camera's are delivered.

I'm more worried about the scarlet options (my own bias I know). Will the cf cards be enough to satisfy me with decent redcode and frame rates, or will I need to move up to the more expensive SSD. I would love to use SSD right off the bat but with my current income it's hard to justify as well as considering that it is a considerable cost compared to a whole fixed package itself.

Though I'm not going to jump to any conclusions yet (though I may have in my second third and forth paragraphs) I figure wait and see the full program and pricing for packages before I start to nit pick.

Have a good one and keep up the good work.

 

[Pascal Scheffers]

SSD is awesome and I know you're all for EPIC performance - I truly do understand the issues with CF cards and their overstated performance, but $450 buys a 120GB 1.8" SSD with 250MB/s write speeds. Now that would need a more rugged housing and all, but for Scarlet fixed I could live with that kind of performance. It'll probably not be enough for EPIC at full throttle, but any chance you'll be doing two tiers of SSD storage?

 

[Michael Hastings]

These new products are nice, but the pricing is a huge, unexpected, and painful hit.

Like many, I had to make a budget for my Epic-X very early on, I never expected current record media to dissappear and be replaced with new far more expensive media (I was a RED-Drive person).

I'm a little scared right now. Too many more surprises like this, and... well.. I dunno...

Sorry for being a downer, but I don't have the huge slush fund you all seem too.

Now I worry what else will change and increase before Epic's release...

Jay

I know this post is not too "pro RED" but I've been on here long enough for people to know how much I love the company, and the camera.. That's why this is so exciting, and frightening.

My only hope at this point is that Jim comes out with some sort of upgrade program, but it's hard to envision a program that would make this affordable. I had a buget of $2000.00 for two RED Drives. That does not even cover the new SSD module now, let alone the drives.

Antony

Not that simple, you need to stay with the current offerings so if there is a problem on set, you can access existing stock. RED RAM, and RED Drives have been discontinued.

Not sure about CF Cards, but I think they have as well.

Jay

First off, let me say that I think moving to SSDs is great.

Second, I'm trying to stay positive even while being frustrated with Epic delays, but I'm feeling a little bit of Jay's angst over this. Please, RED, don't take this as bigger than it is, but in thinking it over in the past few hours, I think the cost of the module for the R1 is what gets me.

Wow .. Wasn't expecting that high
Just a general question... Why RED media always 3X expensive compared to third party SSD?

As a manufacturer myself, (and without going into it as it's not necessary here) I do actually understand why the media has to be priced the way it is. But I don't quite get it on the RED1 SSD module, here's why:

The CF module at $500 seemed a bit high but I kind of understood because on custom/highend stuff you almost have to add in a few hundred dollars just for support even if the part itself is pretty cheap (and it doesn't seem like there is much more to a RED CF module than there is to a good $60 commodity reader - not even a slick eject mechanism) and it seems even more extreme on the $1500 SSD unit. Again, I understand normal manufacturing multipliers - but it seems like in the spirit of "obsolescence obsolete" and more importantly, the long, long delays on Epic-X, that this module shouldn't have normal markup or maybe even be a "loss leader" so that virtually every R1 can be upgraded - and make it up on media sales since it appears that, like the Panasonic P2 days, it will be locked into proprietary SSDs.

So I'm just wondering if there is something electronically much more substantial in the module that is so expensive?.. or if there might be room to rethink the pricing on the module itself?

 

[Steve Freebairn]

Thank you Jim, Jarred, Deanan, Stuart, Graeme, and everyone else at RED that worked their butts off to get this done. I've been asking for this for a long time!

I'm thrilled for the new faster media and am excited that we can buy media now that will work with the newer cameras when they come out.

I still love 16GB RED CF cards, and hope that people realize, they still give you an awesome way to work with the camera.

 

[Miltos Pilalitos]

These new products are nice, but the pricing is a huge, unexpected, and painful hit.

Like many, I had to make a budget for my Epic-X very early on, I never expected current record media to dissappear and be replaced with new far more expensive media (I was a RED-Drive person).

I'm a little scared right now. Too many more surprises like this, and... well.. I dunno...

I am 100% with Jay on this one. I am on the stage 2 program with a RED MX and start to realize that perhaps this Epic-X deal might not be that affordable to me as i once thought.

I am sure that thousands of people who wait for their Scarlets had a reality check too!

Let's wait and see what the next months will bring.

 

[Brook Willard]

Offload speeds are wicked fast too (ie. in the 150-200MB/s range).

You know the way to a man's heart.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

For the record I want to state that I am not making any general comments about RED being too expensive.

I am saying that some of the pricing is hitting MY ceiling. That's all.

I have always believed that the EPIC is for a different tier of user. Had it not been for my early adoption of the RED ONE, there is no doubt EPIC would have been beyond my means.

So now here I am, doing my best to keep up with this high-level camera. I did a lot of planning, and even made a sacrafice of sorts in order to insure my entry into the EPIC system.

It's getting tough... That's all I'm saying.

Jay

 

[Jim Retar]

Can we have some clarification on Scarlet 2/3" media?

Will current CF cards handle 24-120fps?
What is the highest redcode supported by current CF cards at 3k?
Are there plans for future CF cards?
If HDRx is available for Scarlet, will CF cards be good enough?
Will the SSD module be $2500 for Scarlet too?

The basic SSD setup of around $5k will be too much for general 2/3" buyers and it would be nice to hear that CF will not be obsolete.... at least for 3K shooting.

btw - all you epic folk... I look forward to buying up your CF cards in the marketplace ;-)

 

[Paul Leeming]

Red Team, given that part of the side module's additional cost is due to the buttons, monitor connector etc, what are the chances of making the side module itself, modular?

That is to say, have the slot portion be switchable between CF and SSD slots without needing to build/buy all the parts and shell around it?

Another way to keep the module cost down for most of us I'd guess, would be to have the SSD module as the standard port on the Epic-X stages that were listed to come with a free CF module. I've started a poll here to test if this should be the default way to go - hopefully the responses will help formulate the best plan going forward.

Thanks for listening as always!

Paul

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I am 100% with Jay on this one. I am on the stage 2 program with a RED MX and start to realize that perhaps this Epic-X deal might not be that affordable to me as i once thought.

Milos, there were many reasons for me to go stage 3. And one of them is that a fully working Epic-X with all the bells and whistles, being media some of them will be surely more expensive than it looked on the first glanced. Secondly, I only need one cinema grade camera, I'm not a rental house. Thirdly, I can wait. My RedOne (non-MX) is doing a terrific job.

My RedOne kit, by the way, was more expensive than I thought when I ordered it - not because Red raised their prices but because I realized that I had to buy more things than I originally thought of. Only the weak Dollar helped me to stay within budget.

I'm sure when Epic is out we will rethink a lot of our planned investments and probably no strong Euro to help us.

Hans