Someone please explain to me what Alchemy is doing

[Rob Ruffo]

It seems all it is doing is fitting an s-curve with soft clips at high and low ends, but that is something I would rather do by hand in Davinci. Am I missing something?

WHy is everyone so excited about this?

Redcolor3 and Gamma 3 THAT's exciting, that's more than exciting. I've been checking every day to see if it is released because color2 was so awesome, but Alchemy seems just a lazy man's root to contrast grading - it can't be just that, could it?

I must be missing something...

 

[Bruce Allen]

It seems all it is doing is fitting an s-curve with soft clips at high and low ends, but that is something I would rather do by hand in Davinci. Am I missing something?

WHy is everyone so excited about this?

Because they don't know how to use DaVinci.

Redcolor3 and Gamma 3 THAT's exciting, that's more than exciting.

Totally agree.

I've been checking every day to see if it is released because color2 was so awesome, but Alchemy seems just a lazy man's root to contrast grading - it can't be just that, could it?

I must be missing something...

You're overestimating people's desire to learn how to use a free program in order to get the most out of their $60,000 camera.

That's all you're missing. My 2c.

But yes - on a more positive note: UNLEASH THE REDCOLOR3 KRAKEN!

I can say that because I did the title for that trailer

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Doug Beatty]

Agreed with all of the above. I also think alchemy may be slightly adjusting the saturation..not so sure about that one though.

I'm sure someone more versed in expressions could create an "Alchemy" slider for After Effects which would be much handier because of dynamic linking to Premiere.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

This blows me away. Sometimes I feel guilty charging as much as we do, but then I realize that we do way more work learning things than average, and that this knowledge empowers our clients. But the extent displayed here is a bit astounding, I must say.

 

[jake blackstone]

That all is great, until you run into a mixed source timeline-Red/Canon/Sony/Alexa, which, unfortunately happens all the time. Obviously, Alchemy is Red-centric and doesn't work on anything else, beside Red. Red will not even tell you what Alchemy does or how it works. What then?

 

[Bruce Allen]

Jake, I think this is also part of Rob's point.

Likewise, for me, Alchemy is a non-starter because of the large amount of VFX in most of the stuff I do.

Much better to process it clean and then add that look in the grade after the VFX are done.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

That all is great, until you run into a mixed source timeline-Red/Canon/Sony/Alexa, which, unfortunately happens all the time. Obviously, Alchemy is Red-centric and doesn't work on anything else, beside Red. Red will not even tell you what Alchemy does or how it works. What then?

why would anyone pre-grade anything, except maybe re-setting white balance or adjusting exposure, in a mixed source timeline?

I think Alchemy's primary use is on-set, Rob, and for fast environments.

 

[Alexis Hanawalt]

My 2 cents: It's categorized under "Post: Look: Effects." It's an effect. It's a quick way to spruce something up, just like the other "effects" filed under that tab. Not a big deal. (but really fun to watch on the histogram.)

I think this conversation gets filed under "what kind of program is RedCine X Pro now?" because every feature that takes it beyond "one-light" adds to people's confusion about workflow and best practices.

 

[Jack Shanahan]

My 2 cents: It's categorized under "Post: Look: Effects." It's an effect. It's a quick way to spruce something up, just like the other "effects" filed under that tab. Not a big deal. (but really fun to watch on the histogram.)

I think this conversation gets filed under "what kind of program is RedCine X Pro now?" because every feature that takes it beyond "one-light" adds to people's confusion about workflow and best practices.

For now - in a commercial environment -is Redcine and Alchemy as a good way of showing clients and the like a nice dialed in image? Or is it better to set curves etc in camera so they can see a dialed in image on playback?

 

[Bruce Allen]

For now - in a commercial environment -is Redcine and Alchemy as a good way of showing clients and the like a nice dialed in image? Or is it better to set curves etc in camera so they can see a dialed in image on playback?

Personally, I just don't like RED colors and often need secondary color correction to show a truly "dialed in" image. So I go to DaVinci on a laptop or even After Effects if I want to show someone a look.

For on-set, realtime monitoring... pipe out the standard RED colors (which look not so good) and say to the client "hey, see this thing on this laptop? This is what color will actually look more like".

Or if you want to get really fancy, shoot RedLogFilm and run through a 3D LUT box in realtime? I dunno, sounds fun to me (and with a Blackmagic HDLink it's not that expensive) but I've never done it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[David Battistella]

Lots kinda like an auto level slider.

I think it's designed to be a one touch fix.

The render time does not seem to be optimized.

Makes things look pretty fast by combining a few corrections in one slider. Its not bad when pulling stills.


Drawbacks

I don't think it's in the SDK so carrying over from on set is not one click.
Increases render time

David


Imho RCX should be a solid one light tool with incredible io/XML/support for all grading software and NLEs. That is all it has to excell at. Effects, vignettes, film look, skin tone stuff, not sure this is the best place for that kind of work.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

I'm pretty sure I read here that Alchemy is being added to the SDK.

 

[jake blackstone]

why would anyone pre-grade anything, except maybe re-setting white balance or adjusting exposure, in a mixed source timeline?

I think Alchemy's primary use is on-set, Rob, and for fast environments.

Yes, except, it is not
Alchemy now is a part of RED SDK, which means, that it will be "tweakable" in something like Resolve or RCX, which means, that someone on the set will be screwing with it and then client will be demanding, that everything in the timeline to look the same. You can't have camera specific looks. It's just dumb...

 

[David Battistella]

I'm pretty sure I read here that Alchemy is being added to the SDK.

Cool.

So I guess film grain , clarity and the others must be in the pipeline.

David

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Personally, I just don't like RED colors and often need secondary color correction to show a truly "dialed in" image. So I go to DaVinci on a laptop or even After Effects if I want to show someone a look.

For on-set, realtime monitoring... pipe out the standard RED colors (which look not so good) and say to the client "hey, see this thing on this laptop? This is what color will actually look more like".

Or if you want to get really fancy, shoot RedLogFilm and run through a 3D LUT box in realtime? I dunno, sounds fun to me (and with a Blackmagic HDLink it's not that expensive) but I've never done it.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

We've done it - it works really, really well. You can have many LUTS ready for upload. Fast/easy.

 

[Mark Toia]

I discard everything I shot on set anyway.. start with a pefectly white balanced REDLOG film file and just grade away in Resolve or FCP...

Alchemy I think was and idea before RC3 came out for the punters that don't grade externally of RED CINE X... Was nice, but is it really needed.. I don't think so now.

 

[Joost Kelderman]

I don't have a HD-link so could you tip me of just how simple it is? connect through USB upload a 3D-LUT? supposedly you could use a blackmagic HD-SDI to DVI convertor; upload your LUT and have your client look at a RED3 kinda colorspace realtime during recording? Is it compatible with looks exported from for example red alert? would you advise certain settings that have worked for you to assure clients?

thanks,
Joost

 

[Marc Wielage]

I discard everything I shot on set anyway.. start with a pefectly white balanced REDLOG film file and just grade away in Resolve or FCP...

That approach can work very well. However, on systems that can pull along two identical side-by-side timelines -- I believe Baselight and Pablo can do this with ease -- you can at least compare the new correction to the previous look that was applied to the version shot on set.

In years past, we used to have to just have two monitors, or pull along a tape machine to show the temporary HD version. The issue there was, different color space, different gamma, different LUTs, and all that stuff, so we'd have to jump through hoops to try to make it an "apples to apples" comparison.

At least having access to the temp version can be beneficial, giving the colorist the general idea of what the scene was supposed to be: normal as opposed to blue, crushed instead of light, blown-out as opposed to murky, day instead of night, etc. Famously, I once graded a day-for-night sequence as day, then checked the soundtrack and was stunned to hear crickets (the tell-tale "night" sound effect). I quickly went back, brought everything down as a global, did a quick run through, and had it fixed before the client walked in the door. This is what happens when the colorist doesn't know the dramatic intent of a scene -- but all went well in the end.

 

[Craig Weeding]

Hello Rob

I think it is important to remember that RED has an amazingly diverse user base, I am sure that there is no other digital cine camera that has the wide spectrum of users. The is due in large part to the prices that RED charges for their cameras and equipment. It is also due to the fact the RED has made it simple and affordable for novice users to get great results by providing FREE tools like REDCINE X and Pro and REDCOLOR3.

For many users these tools are invaubile for working with their footage on tight budgets that often do not include Pablo's, Resolves and Luster system with the colorist needed to operate them

For user's with the bigger budgets, equipment and the personnel, no problem reset the meta data with the click of the mouse and grade in film log

but for many users who do not have more then a laptpop and REDCINE these tools are allowing a whole group of film makers to produce amazing 4K films for budgets that could not have even been dreamed of before the RED Revolution began


As RED admits they are a very disruptive company and i salute them for their courage and leadership to make the production of digital cinema affordable

I will continue to use resolve but my hat is off to RED for doing so much to empower Flimmakers with tools that are free and provide great results with out years of training, experience and deep pockets other color grading solutions can require

Thank you RED for the great set of Free tools that you keep upgrading and improving for Free

Craig

 

[J.D. Frey]

Hello Rob
For many users these tools are invaubile for working with their footage on tight budgets that often do not include Pablo's, Resolves and Luster system with the colorist needed to operate them

I totally agree. Some of us just have a camera and a computer- and we are ok with that

However- it is nice to see what I can aspire to eventually. Maybe one day I'll have 90k of color control surfaces and software, but until I read a thread like this I don't even know what to dream about.