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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Soft, Noisy and lots of Artifacts

Hey Matt, the third one from the top is one of the most filmic images I've seen from a RED apart of the moster budget productions.
kudos !
ps: can we see it in motion ?
 
Just did a back focus. Here is the BEFORE & AFTER BACK FOCUS. No change imho.

Phil,

I have been focusing using the magnify function and then focusing very critically by eye. However, for these last backfocus tests I did with the chart I flipped on the autofocus and used that in combination with the magnify function and a double-check by eye.

Nobody near me with any prime lenses. The closest small rental house near me is 1 hour away. Im probably going to go up there Wed and shoot side by side with another Scarlet. They may have primes.. not sure.

The focus charts I just did tonight are 5ft from the focus plane.

No word from RED yet either. Tried to call them today but nobody was home or answering the phones this afternoon around 4:30pm.
 
Philipe Ratton said:
Hey Matt, the third one from the top is one of the most filmic images I've seen from a RED apart of the moster budget productions.
kudos !
ps: can we see it in motion ?
Click to expand...

Hey Philipe,
Thank you! Those shots are from a student short with a $3,000 budget. Here is the thread I started about it: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?72364-quot-Deceit-quot-student-short-film-shot-on-Red-One-MX-4-5K-with-Zeiss-CP-2-s&highlight= Shot it in a classroom with a standard height ceiling and no windows. Set dressing was pretty damn good cause no one from the school realized we had shot in the classroom.
The editor has all the footage but I will try to get a hold of it in the near future and can post some video's. Thats one of the downsides to being a DP, once it's shot you rarely get the RAW footage back in your hands. None of the shots have been colored yet, I like to set a look in camera to as close as I am going for as to cut down on the post work. I light and expose how I want it to look rather than shoot it flat and try to get a look in post. Of course I always have the option to go and tweak since it's RAW.
 
Michael McCaffrey said:
Just did a back focus. Here is the BEFORE & AFTER BACK FOCUS. No change imho.

Phil,

I have been focusing using the magnify function and then focusing very critically by eye. However, for these last backfocus tests I did with the chart I flipped on the autofocus and used that in combination with the magnify function and a double-check by eye.

Nobody near me with any prime lenses. The closest small rental house near me is 1 hour away. Im probably going to go up there Wed and shoot side by side with another Scarlet. They may have primes.. not sure.

The focus charts I just did tonight are 5ft from the focus plane.

No word from RED yet either. Tried to call them today but nobody was home or answering the phones this afternoon around 4:30pm.
Click to expand...

The only thing though is if it's the lenses that are soft and they are what you are setting backfocus with, then it will never be correct. The other thing is, are you sure your adjusting the backfocus screw? There's a cover over the actual screw that needs to be removed first.
 
Everybody is recommending the right sauce. If you have a moment today, it's 4am here in LA and I have no clue why I'm still awake, set the lens to f/8 and shoot some ground, road, grass, gravel or something at 55mm about 5-ish feet away from the camera. Use the magnify mode to lock focus and make sure you put the lens in manual mode prior to locking critical focus, meaning shut autofocus off.

So basically, on a tripod, tilt the camera down and shoot the ground during the day when you have a minute. Roll about 10 seconds and grab a still from the end of the take to post here. This will tell everybody a lot and in the process should eliminate some of the unknown variables here.
 
Phil Holland said:
Everybody is recommending the right sauce. If you have a moment today, it's 4am here in LA and I have no clue why I'm still awake, set the lens to f/8 and shoot some ground, road, grass, gravel or something at 55mm about 5-ish feet away from the camera. Use the magnify mode to lock focus and make sure you put the lens in manual mode prior to locking critical focus, meaning shut autofocus off.

So basically, on a tripod, tilt the camera down and shoot the ground during the day when you have a minute. Roll about 10 seconds and grab a still from the end of the take to post here. This will tell everybody a lot and in the process should eliminate some of the unknown variables here.
Click to expand...

Its 4:19am and I'm awake too. Not cool but I can't sleep either.

I'll shoot the ground and do that test in the morning (after I go back to sleep and wake up again) :)
 
Matt Ryan said:
The only thing though is if it's the lenses that are soft and they are what you are setting backfocus with, then it will never be correct. The other thing is, are you sure your adjusting the backfocus screw? There's a cover over the actual screw that needs to be removed first.
Click to expand...

Yes I was adjusting the back focus :) I took the plug out and did the 80 degree tilt etc etc. you're right about back focusing with soft lenses but figured I'd give it a shot since it was the only thing left for me to try. Desperation set in. Also figured that the new lens has got to be sharper than what I was seeing in the tests so it was worth a shot.

I was thinking about heading to Yellowstone this weekend and shooting some stuff. Then I saw this :/

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1114874
 
On the surface of things from an old 35mm groundglass adaptor wrangler's viewpoint, your lens appears to be not sitting flat in the mount, is able to move in the mount, has a bent mount, mount camera face and lens flange face are machined out of parallel, a joint in the barrel has been ricked from a tipover, the lens barrel itself bent, the build quality of the lens is a bit off or the flange face of the camera mount is not parallel with the sensor or I am making a mistaken observation and propagating misinformation.

Why I am carrying on ?? - In the image of the man on the four-wheeler, the white frame bows on the greenhouse to the right about 70 metres distant, appear to be in crisp focus. The rear bumper of the Toyota in left of frame much closer appears to be equally sharp. This will be more apparent on the wide end of a zoom lens or any wide prime you put on the camera. With the lens aperture fully open this will become more apparent. With the lens zoomed in for a telephoto view it is less likely to be apparent as the depth-of field ( probably the wrong definition ) at the focal plane end is wider when the depth of field at the subject end is very narrow.

There may have been a diffraction artifact happening in the first jpg posted. The image was apparently sharp in dead centre and softer from a short distance outwards to the edges. If the backfocus is off and lens focus has been adjusted in overcompensation to bring the image into focus, then a sharp centre and soft outer may become apparent. It might equally be a characteristic of the particular lens.

If the lens or the camera mount itself is in a skewed state, then setting an accurate backfocus will be harder. If the lens can actually move in the mount, the task will be even more difficult.

Zoom lenses are not always the sharpest when compared to prime lenses.

In absence of proper focus charts and test setups, my personal preference would be to set the zoom lens at its widest view, set the lens barrel witness mark to infinity, point to a distant sharply defined object like a utility tower or transmission tower on a distant hilltop about a half mile or threequarter kilometre away. Now adjust the camera backfocus to bring the distant object into sharpest focus. You should do this with the lens aperture wide and ND filters on the front to restore sensible light levels. If you have no NDs, then choose a time of day when the light level is less and you can open the iris without overexposing the camera. this will not be perfect but should establish a base point to trim from.

I hope this is helpful.
 
Phil Holland said:
Everybody is recommending the right sauce. If you have a moment today, it's 4am here in LA and I have no clue why I'm still awake, set the lens to f/8 and shoot some ground, road, grass, gravel or something at 55mm about 5-ish feet away from the camera. Use the magnify mode to lock focus and make sure you put the lens in manual mode prior to locking critical focus, meaning shut autofocus off.

So basically, on a tripod, tilt the camera down and shoot the ground during the day when you have a minute. Roll about 10 seconds and grab a still from the end of the take to post here. This will tell everybody a lot and in the process should eliminate some of the unknown variables here.
Click to expand...

Never did get back to sleep. So here's the 55mm test at 5ft and f8.
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/17-55mm_at_55mm_5ft_f8.jpg (no sharpening)
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/17-55mm_at_55mm_5ft_f8.R3D
 
Close ups always look good.
Wide shots with a lot of detail stress the sensor (and the compression algorithms). Especially when there are extreme contrast areas near the edge of the frame- such as sunny sky through tree leaves.
You can shoot portraits under controlled light or flowers all day long and they will look good- that's why they are the most common camera showcase subjects...
 
Do you have another Scarlet user in your area? Or a Rental House that will allow you to set up in a test bay and compare against another Scarlet. Start from zero under a controlled situation. Reset camera to factory settings and work your way from there.
 
Ted Parkes said:
Do you have another Scarlet user in your area? Or a Rental House that will allow you to set up in a test bay and compare against another Scarlet. Start from zero under a controlled situation. Reset camera to factory settings and work your way from there.
Click to expand...

Going to try that tomorrow.
 
Michael McCaffrey said:
Scarlet sharpness vs EX1

http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/scarlet_vs_ex1.jpg
http://66.147.244.90/~laymenmi/red/scarlet_vs_EX1_55mm.jpg
Click to expand...

You're comparing 2 very different things here... the EX1 has a smaller sensor (1/2 inch type Exmors), is 1920x1080, built in lens (Fuji zoom), different compression, IS built in along with selectable ND, etc etc vs the S35 Scarlet with a large RAW sensor and an entirely different method of production (more like film, in that you're developing something from RAW in RCX etc).

http://www.abelcine.com/fov/ pick the two cameras/sensors here to see a comparison.

Have you reset your Scarlet? I agree with others that you should either meet up with another user or go to a Rental house and get some advice.

Comparing EX1 vs Scarlet isn't really doing you any favours, as the EX1 was designed for a very different use to the Scarlet.

Quick edit - your EX1's are 1080 - are your Scarlet shots 4K scaled to 1080?
 
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The EX1 footage has a lot of sharpening happening in it, plus the blacks are blacker, which is all going in increase the illusion of sharpness.

Here is a test I did comparing the EX3 to the Red One, all reduced to HD and then cropped. The sharpness settings in the EX3 were turned down:

Cropped%20Sony%20EX3%20Focus.jpg


Cropped%20Red%20Focus.jpg


I also did one for the Canon 550D which was much worse in sharpness
Cropped%20Canon%20Focus.jpg


Obviously if I had finished in 4K the difference between the Red One and the EX3 would have been more marked, obvious, but dumbed-down to HD the two weren't as far off. However, the Red image has the advantage of being detailed without having artificial sharpness applied, and therefore looks more natural and film-like, less electronic.
 
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Joe G. said:
Just observing, but have you tried lowering the compression ratio? I do not like Red's compression and haven't been shy about saying so. 8:1 sounds like really pushing it. I would much prefer uncompressed, all else being equal.
Click to expand...

"Uncompressed" with REDCODE-style wavelets is actually 2.5:1 (and part of the specs for the original Epic program). It's completely lossless, the only thing different is the amount of space taken on the card.

Now that there's the faster 512GB media on the way, I wonder if they'll revive the 2.5:1 option?
 
The (EX3) blacks don't look blacker on the charts, at least not on my screen. The R1 has better blacks there...
 
OptiTek said:
The (EX3) blacks don't look blacker on the charts, at least not on my screen. The R1 has better blacks there...
Click to expand...

Yes, I was talking about the blacks in his EX1 versus Scarlet frames, not my charts. In my case, yes, the Red One came out of RedCine-X with deeper blacks.
 
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