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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So it appears we're crazy...

K

Kris Anderson

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I was at my edit suite today and bumped into a camera op I know, a good guy. He was there testing a Phantom HD for a shoot he has coming up. Some guy with him chuckled when I mentioned I had an Epic.

"Epic Fail" he said.

I looked at him and asked him what he was talking about and had he even used the camera himself. Of course, he hadn't.

He then proceeded to tell me that "everyone in in Australia is saying how bad the camera is."

It took every ounce of willpower I had not to punch him square in the face. What a dick.

I just wish I had the presence of mind at the time to tell him that us "failures" were in good company, with Baz, PJ, Ridley and James Cameron. But I was really pissed and not thinking straight. I just walked away.

So, I guess we're all crazy to bet the farm on a "failure". Sign me up then. I'll happily go to the asylum.

Did I mention I really wanted to punch him?
 
heh heh... add Soderbergh, Fincher, Wolski, Schwartzman, Burgess, Vilmos, and several others to the list of reasonably capable people that just might disagree with "this guys" opinion.

Jim
 
The image potential of the Epic is as far as I can see unrivaled. but that does unfortunately not equal immediate success in all markets.

Epic will "win" as to the share number of cameras out there, no doubt.
And thus it will also eventually "win" as to the total productions made on it vs any other cam.

That said, that does not mean that it immediately will be accepted as the best or even a good solution for many applications.

Actually RED has done a huge gamble that we - the users - manage to promote the product into many day-to-day market segments like smalltime commercials, low budget films, TV series etc.

And I think it is important that that is done with respect for the clients and the needs of the productions, more than a die-hard confrontation and quarrel over which tool is "the best". THose discussions usually just turn off the pro market, as that is not really that interesting - as long as they stay as angry beerside discussions rather than qualified artistic photographical statements.

I do have some humble dreams:


To all us receiving X - packages
1. Learn to use the tool and be comfortable with post before starting to offer it and renting it to potential customers. Try to make the userexperience as smooth and positive as you possibly can

2. If you are renting: Don't oversell. That only makes for angry customers. The X-package as it comes, is not fit for a lot of renting scenarios. Heavy extra kitting will be neccesary to make it a viable rental option for many types of productions. If you are sitting on a die-hard "non hard-lined EFP package" (to quote Gibby), something like the x-package + an SSD - do NOT sell that as a full featured film-production kind of package.

3. If you are offering DIT services or at all renting: Get at least one rocket!!!! (at least until a prores-or-similar module is present)

4. Have respect for your clients and the productions you enter. There are lots of experience around you, even though you may consider them misinformed.

5. The fact that PJ produces the Hobbit on Epics, does not immediately mean that you are ready to deliver Hobbit-like productions, even though you have an Epic, too...

6. Network with other Epic users in your area to be able to support your productions with backup bodies if needed. NOW... I have never had the need for a R1 backup body, but that idea is so solidly established after the initial R1 rollout, that such a networking will be essential for client confidence in a lot of markets.

7. The Alexa has been out for a year. People are really happy with it. Attacking them for that is a real bad marketing option. You have to be capable at showing them why the Epic is better, if you think so...
Disrespect for peoples experiences will probably land you very few gigs. Pointing at PJ won't help you much either. You showing off what can be done in a good way OTOH, will land you a lot of gigs. After all: This is NOT kit-war but creative and artistic productions.

8. Make sure you have at least a well operateable and well ballanced package for your clients needs, if you are not operating yourself. That means:
Focus on ballancing the camera and make it comfortable physically to operate.

9. Have the EVF handy and an alternative monitoring option for the AC

10. Sync cables, enough batteries and chargers, spare cables and ssd-readers, whatever mounting options you need for evf/lcd, good setups for sticks and handheld without having to go for an hour into mekano-land, Matte, box, FF and filtersets are kinda minimal options for most rentals I know. Don't bank on HDRx to fix your exposure needs.

11. Have a good understanding of the RAW files and what can be retrieved and what not before advicing the client/DP.

12. Have qualified advices as to resolution, compression and how to use HDRx. These will be initial questions. Don't guess. Know!

13. YOU may be able to make the most fantastic images with just the Epic-X package + an SSD and a lense. Actually I suspect a lot of us will.
That does not equal that all clients will be superhappy with that same setup, and that again does not make them stupid. Just means that they have other needs...

14. Remember this:
RED/ARRI/SONY sell camerasystems
We sell competence, confidence and image-quality

Be sure to NOT mix who is delivering what.

Cheers and best of luck to all of us!!!


Gunleik
 
Kris...one thing you can do is to put some heavy noise in his footage and let him know how bad his footage is...

He probably says it look more filmic :(
 
I'm an Aussie who wishes he was shooting everything on an Epic - at least there is two of us :P.

Misinformation and elitism within the market is one of the most frustrating things to deal with.
 
Kris Anderson said:
I was at my edit suite today and bumped into a camera op I know, a good guy. He was there testing a Phantom HD for a shoot he has coming up. Some guy with him chuckled when I mentioned I had an Epic.

"Epic Fail" he said.

I looked at him and asked him what he was talking about and had he even used the camera himself. Of course, he hadn't.

He then proceeded to tell me that "everyone in in Australia is saying how bad the camera is."

It took every ounce of willpower I had not to punch him square in the face. What a dick.

I just wish I had the presence of mind at the time to tell him that us "failures" were in good company, with Baz, PJ, Ridley and James Cameron. But I was really pissed and not thinking straight. I just walked away.

So, I guess we're all crazy to bet the farm on a "failure". Sign me up then. I'll happily go to the asylum.

Did I mention I really wanted to punch him?
Click to expand...

Just do what I do, have them try the camera, and or test it against anything els,e including Alexa of course, I have done this, what, about so many times I can't remember, yet it ends all the same,
oh wow, I didn't know that EPIC did this, or did that, or that it could do this to, and look like this, he he, its not their fault really, just miss information out there, by very BIAS people... ;)
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Just do what I do, have them try the camera, and or test it against anything els,e including Alexa of course, I have done this, what, about so many times I can't remember, yet it ends all the same,
oh wow, I didn't know that EPIC did this, or did that, or that it could do this to, and look like this, he he, its not their fault really, just miss information out there, by very BIAS people... ;)
Click to expand...

Good plan!
Punching and anger is not... :)

Point is not a discussion of "if it works".
More like:
Know how to make the best of it and make your clients happy!
 
Chiming in here as an Australian

For some reason all of us as a nation have this seriously bad case of tall poppy syndrome.

It seems to be a lot of the people in the industry -who are generally unhappy with the work they are getting (or lack of it)- hugely resent anyone working with Epic right now.

I have 4 EPICs here and they are FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC CAMERAS. They have been going out on a daily basis to non-professional operators. These guys and girls have never shot EPIC before, and probably not shot with any high-end digital cine camera. Right now these 4 EPICs are the workhorses on 20 short films.

The rushes are coming back and they look astonishing. Scenes with only natural lighting at night in a dark alleyway - EPIC running at 2000ISO and the footage is silky smooth. No crashes. No power spikes. No lost footage. No glitches. Just a solid reliable easy to use camera that is churning out great footage.

We had a big "professional" shoot come in and use our facilities for a few days. They were shooting R1. We of course hung around the set a little and shot some BTS on an EPIC... I could not believe the comments I got from the crew... "EPIC MATE? THEY ARE SHIT AREN'T THEY? EVERYONE IS USING ALEXA NOW"

Truly unbelievable.

Jannard is right. People have an attitude problem with RED because of the way he chooses to run the company. I see it as a few small supply issues to put up with in exchange for getting your hands on the best camera money can buy, for P2 prices.

Add to that the support we have had from RED has been incredible. I truly believe Deanan is some sort of cyborg as even with the time difference I don't think it's taken any longer than 4 hours to get a reply.

But what it boils down to is - there is no room for a bad attitude in this industry. If you have a bad attitude and are unwilling to adapt to new technology you will get left behind and lose work because of it. EPIC-X is shipping now and when everyone is shooting EPIC (and loving it) there will be a lot of people who will miss the boat because they have bad attitudes.

/rant
 
To be... fair... I have to take some medication, for genuine medical reasons, that increase my aggression levels. Unfortunately the benefits far outweigh the side effects. So my response should be filtered through that. I have only ever hit a person once in my life.

But still....
 
EPIC

EPIC

The Alexa has been out for a year. People are really happy with it. Attacking them for that is a real bad marketing option. You have to be capable at showing them why the Epic is better, if you think so...
Disrespect for peoples experiences will probably land you very few gigs. Pointing at PJ won't help you much either. You showing off what can be done in a good way OTOH, will land you a lot of gigs. After all: This is NOT kit-war but creative and artistic productions.
Click to expand...

We as a rental house with one EPIC-M and 2 RED MX and 2 EPICS in pipeline, never 'critisise' other persons opinion if they say that Alexa is a good camera...because this causes total negative effect on the person who has come with an opion of his own..and they become hostile.

WE JUST TELL THEN WHAT IS 'GOOD' IN RED AND EPIC...thats it.

Harcharan
 
There are a fair few people in Australia that are ANTI RED.. Let me say firstly, that i am DEFINATELY NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE!

Alexa seems to be the flavour at the moment, but there is a real popularity among the Advertising boffins that shoot all of there TV commercials on Canon 5d/7d.
I have even offered my RED ONE for the same price as the 5d just to get a job and still i get "5d is the in look... "

Very frustrating.

I am trying to put together a RED education night soon at the NSW branch of the ACS so people can come and play with my EPIC and see how much better it is to shoot at 4K/5K.
My main approach to the negative anti RED people is this...

When you are editing your 1080 footage from either canon or Alexa Prores can you push a shot in but 150% and not see a difference in resolution? I think not.

I have always liked the extra res, as being a steadicam operator, sometimes you only get one or two takes, and the director wants a closeup from a 35mm lens. With 4K you can do this easily.

Kris I will catch up with you soon to have a beer and a chat about this as I am trying to change the unchangeable opinions of a few mis informed people. I personally believe that the more cameras, more formats can only be a good thing for the industry. Hey everyone likes options... But there is a negative feeling in Sydney anyway by a few people, and all I am trying to do is get my EPIC in front of as many people as I can.

I have rented it already to some great cinematographers, and there have been some great TV commercials shot on my EPIC already.

So Kris if you ever get in that position again, I am more than happy to show those people the benefits of RED in my studio, and they can perform their own camera tests in my studio for free. (Obviously conditions apply!)
 
Hi Adam

Let me know if you end up getting that Red Eduction night together. Would love to come and meet you and network with some of the other people that come along. I'm only a small player in Newcastle, but hope to be shooting on my own EPIC at some point in the future :)
 
In India , people are ARRI followers because this the company with whose products they have been dealing from the time film was invented....So it s some taking some time for people to understand..and lot of wrong info regarding RED workflow,overheating,crashing etc makes it more difficult...people never check back the facts and hold onto the rumours...But whoever has worked with us on RED MX has not looked back at 35mm.....and with EPIC things will change fast very fast....
 
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