Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

So $4K R1 is more capable than the more expensive Scarlet

D

Damian Mizzi

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hmmm so basically now, a $4K Red One can outperform a Scarlet which can cost around $10-12K for brain, and the most basic necessary components. :banghead:
 
The R1 will also need additional components. The R1 is battletested (used) the Scarlet is new. The R1 has a 90 day warranty the Scarlet has a 1 year warranty. The R1 is end of life the Scarlet has an upgrade path (although the path has not been figured out, decided, announced).

The R1 does have higher frame rates. Also, there is a larger used market for accessories.

R1 $4,000 vs Scarlet $7950
 
Stephen Mick said:
It's also about four times the size of the Scarlet and has no potential upgrade to the new Dragon sensor, so there's that.
Click to expand...

Spot on, and will need a much more expensive tripod to support it. Also aren't all the scarlet add-ons compatible with EPIC and EPIC monochrome? The Red One add-ons not so much.
 
Well, $7950 for a Scarlet Brain, without mount, without SSD module, without some kind of camera controller, like REDmote/ side handle. SSD module, lens, and camera control are already available of the R1. That's the kind of price comaprison I did. Battle tested items are very much like new. And dragon upgrade will require AT LEAST another $6K, and god knows when for Scarlets. You got a point re warranty, but still major difference in price. And size surely not the major issue. I think a little firmware upgrade for Scarlet wouldn't do any harm. The Epic's will still hold it's market considering the new prices. :)
 
The RED one also is amazingly silent compared to Epic / Scarlet ! We shot 2 Epics + 2 Scarlets + 1 RED One last week and thought the RED One still has many positive attributes including being able to record long interviews without any risk of running too hot too quickly...
 
Freya said:
So you are comparing a brand new Scarlet to a second hand Red One?

love

Freya
Click to expand...


All I'm saying is that a cheaper camera from the same manufacturer can do more. Its obvious the Scarlet, is nicer, lighter, upgradable and what not. That's not my point. Picture quality, and framerate versus price is the issue. Red made the Scarlets less capable, to protect the Epics. And that make sense. that's my point.
 
I'm looking at this from another oint of view. If I had to ask someone, like hey so there are these two cameras, both Red, both can be purchased directly from the company. One is heavy and big, shoots 4.5K, and up to 120fps at 2k, and costs $4K. The other one is lighter and smaller, and shoots in 4K and up to 60fps in 2K. The basic configuration costs around $11K, and can be upgradable in the future for at least another $6K. Both have same sensor. so..which one would you get now?
 
Damian Mizzi said:
Hmmm so basically now, a $4K Red One can outperform a Scarlet which can cost around $10-12K for brain, and the most basic necessary components. :banghead:
Click to expand...

I understand your issue. I almost jumped on a used RED one package for 14K just prior to Scarlets birth on November 3rd for 14K. I had DREAMED of owning a RED one since their inception and @ 14K it seemed like an incredible deal to me. But I decided due to future upgrades and form factor a scarlet would ultimately be a better choice.

A year later, and right now with the price changes, I can get the camera I used to dream of at half the cost of the RED I own with twice the frame rates and better resolution. And I could even have stretched to an Epic if I was buying now!!

I'm ecstatic for the young indies and so impressed by RED's vision and committment. But I confess, I'd be absolutely gutted...

If I had backed another company.

I have to believe RED will look after us via Scarlet's dragon upgrade (whatever that happens to be)

Higher frame rates, and 4.5K to at least put us on par with the RED ones key specs at a reasonable premium - you would hope would be a minimum.

Or spend more money for better specs... but where they fall is hard to say as they must still respect the extra 10K odd investment now needed to be an epic owner instead.

Like I'm sure are many others, I'm now just praying they will knock Scarlet Dragon as equally far out of the park. And thankfully all the evidence says we have nothing to fear. We have backed a cutting edge company that is not interested in gouging us. Mind blowing. (It's not 4k - but this that I wish the "other" companies were truly "paying attention" too.) So... I'm just going to try and sit tight and trust these guys have my back, until they give us all some happy Scarlet Dragon news.
 
Last edited:
Liam I agree with you. I am happy with my Scarlet as well. If the R1 and Scarlets are being sold at the same price. I would go for the Scarlet no brainer. However $4K for R1 is not $14K. Dragon upgrade is great option, but will require more funds, and not coming anytime soon for Scarlets I bet. I think a simple firmware upgrade for Scarlets would be nice and fair. I understand that Red want to protect the Epic, but Hdrx in 4K like promised a year ago, and perhaps some better framerates would surely please some people.
 
Now that the red one does no longer exist, there is no more 4.5k to protect. I guess the scarlet has more power than the red one. And 4k is 6:1. I'm sure it should be possible for the scarlet to have the same 4.5k as red one MX (which is 7:1 and 2.4 ratio).
 
There are 3 entry points, each one has a different price and different technical specs. Based upon feature needs/budget, pick the one that makes sense. This is all great news for people to become owners of motion cameras. Reasonable (actually down right astounding) price/feature options. For people with dreams of making films, there is now a means.
 
I know the R1 deal is just unbelievable.
Even in the face of seeing so many people making massive savings, I still don't really expect something for nothing though.
But regarding Scarlet Dragon... I'm sort of hoping RED will dispense with putting a new sensor in, and the wait associated with it,
and instead give us 120fps at 2k, 96 @ 3k, 48/50 @ 4K (Giving us HDRX at 24/25p) and 4.5 (or 5K) @ 25p.
Call it Scarlet Wyvern, charge us 2k or less, and whip it out, without the need and cost associated with physically modding our cameras.

Epic Dragon, will have 6K vs 5K, better frame rates as ever, and I think the big ones, better DR and low light performance.

That's a better differential than there currently is between Scarlet and Epic. Epic will remain the clear flagship camera. And Scarlet (Dragon) will still be affordable and be even more competitive with the other cameras coming out now, and over say, the next 24 months.

Charge 6K for a Scarlet upgrade... and you'd just buy an epic wouldn't you? Unless the Scarlet Dragons specs were so good, that buying an epic wouldn't make sense. But doing that wouldnt make sense.

So the way I see it, a paid firmware upgrade, presuming it can be done (which smarter minds than mine have mused it can) is the only thing which makes sense of the whole price point and specs enchilada. That, or I guess a kick ass upgrade path from Scarlet to Epic. But that just means RED plunges headfirst into the battle tested scarlet world again...
 
I think you have to weigh up whether you are likely to want to buy a EPIC Monochrome brain in the future and/or EPIC-X because in that case it's better to get the scarlet as you are buying accessories that you will be able to use in the future.

As I say the tripod thing is also not minor. There are few tripods able to support the thing. You will need to track one down and it will probably be at least $1000. However you will then have a really nice tripod! :) OTOH maybe you are considering going handheld?

If you are not considering going EPIC etc in the future then you are probably better off with the Red One but it also depends a bit on what you are planning to do with it. Obviously they are different cameras with different strengths and weaknesses.

Obviously the Scarlet is likely to get more updates and more sophisticated ones than the RED One.

love

Freya
 
Lliam Worthington said:
So the way I see it, a paid firmware upgrade, presuming it can be done (which smarter minds than mine have mused it can) is the only thing which makes sense of the whole price point and specs enchilada. That, or I guess a kick ass upgrade path from Scarlet to Epic. But that just means RED plunges headfirst into the battle tested scarlet world again...
Click to expand...

It was my understanding that the ASICs were different between the Epic and Scarlet, if so, probably not just a firmware upgrade. If they are the same then only a firmware change. That would be cool. However, when the Epics get updated with the Dragon sensor, which requires a new electronic package (ASICs), there will be a pile of Epic "guts" lying besides the electronic operating table. Current Scarlets could undergo transplants to become Epics.

Of course that means that there would be grey Epics. Oh the confusion ;)
 
Freya it is always nice to see your thoughtfulness and balance around here :)

If your camera is a business, one you intend to make money with and then put money back into, get a Scarlet. Or better yet, an Epic. There will be an upgrade path, and in a year, you'll be happy you have a 2000 ASA sensor with 16 stops of range that can compete with the latest from Sony and Arri.

If your camera is pure passion, one you make stunning images with regardless of profit, you want the look of Red but have a limited amount of funds you can invest once--get the Red One. For years the entire industry, including documentary shooters, lived with the long boot up time and weight; get a hot swap plate for the batteries.

Freya is right, you will spend at least 1,000 on a good tripod, but it will serve you your whole life.
 
I don't see why with the decreased price of the Epic that the Scarlet will not get 5k unlocked. I think Red limited the Scarlets frame rate to make Epic owners not loss their minds. Now that Epic is only 2x as expensive I think 5k ws 25 fps will eventually be unlocked. So that would be a plus for the Scarlet crew.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top