Significant Update...

[Stefan Antonescu]

Canon Mounts no problem.. we will ship them with just iris support if needed after all parts come in. Characterizing lenses takes a very long time, we won't wait on that to be complete before we ship.

Very good news. Thanks Jarred, much appreciated.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

I'm most certain demand is pretty high. Now just to clarify - are you saying that non-RED ONE owners might not have the chance to place an order before the end of the year and profit from the old prices or do you mean that it's uncertain to have an EPIC in your hands before the end of the year?

I'm with you on this one Tobias.

Would be great being able to pay before the end of the year and take delivery a few months later.

 

[D Fuller]

Canon Mounts no problem.. we will ship them with just iris support if needed after all parts come in. Characterizing lenses takes a very long time, we won't wait on that to be complete before we ship.

Nikon mounts have a motor in the mount.. so that is a little more complicated... there is testing that goes on that is more hardware oriented and dependent. That is why we may offer a completely separate dumb mount for Nikon.

I've been talking with Jacek at OptiTek, who made the very solid ProLock Nikon mount for R1. My understanding is that he sent you guys a prototype a few days ago for approval. I know everyone at Red must be slammed, but speedy approval of that mount would serve a lot of people until the Red Electronic version is ready.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Hi Gibby,
I'm with you on this, I shoot Nikon almost exclusively and very happy with them. You can see the title below my showreel. I was just referring to the notion that was mentioned of stills lenses not resolve the 5k Epic which is not true I believe.
http://www.vimeo.com/14522421

Ah...now I understand. Same here, I've been using Nikon almost exclusively with Red One. Yes, good stills lenses easily resolve 5k on Epic. One of the very first lenses I used on Epic M 0008 this past February 4 when me and Ketch received the camera was my stock Canon FD 150-600 f5.6L with a Century PL mount conversion - the only PL mount lens I own out of the 42 lenses I owned at the time. That 20 year old Canon FF35 lens easily resolved 5k on Epic, and the shot results were excellent. Then since June, I see that Vincent LaForet and other stills shooters have been testing out Canon lenses on Epic, as has been posted here on Red User.

I already have a full kit of Canon L series lenses I've been using on my 5D, so naturally since the Canon mount will be the first one ready from Red I'll go that route. When the Nikon mount is ready I'll get one of those too, because I have a bunch of top-level Nikon lenses I want to use too. Then when the Red Electronic Lenses and mount are ready I'll also definitely get those and use them heavily. It will be awesome to eventually have the quick option in the field or before the shooting day to analyze which lenses I want to use for that day (Red Electronic, Canon, Nikon), then be able to change out the mounts in a few seconds and get back to work! Lots of options...)

 

[Steve Gibby]

Canon Mounts no problem.. we will ship them with just iris support if needed after all parts come in. Characterizing lenses takes a very long time, we won't wait on that to be complete before we ship.

Nikon mounts have a motor in the mount.. so that is a little more complicated... there is testing that goes on that is more hardware oriented and dependent. That is why we may offer a completely separate dumb mount for Nikon.

Excellent indeed...

I'll take the partially-enabled Canon mount first and put my L series lenses to work, and wait for the Nikon electronic mount to put my Nikon lenses to work. Then when the Red Electronic Lenses and mount are ready I'll definitely get those and use them extensively.

Having all these additional electronic lens and mount options is critical for those of us who'll use them daily for the industries we work in - stills, hybrid, and EFP.

Very, very cool...

 

[David Battistella]

All that glass. All these mounts. All these choices and options.

Excellent indeed.

 

[Andrew M.]

I'm with Elsie; I'll see your MPs and raise you my Nikon 14-24; it doesn't run out of resolution on a 6K D3X so I guess it'll muddle through on an EPIC

It really is the most gorgeous bit of ultra-wide glass I've ever used, seriously. And for what it costs you might just be able to afford to buy a decent *box* for the MPs...

Mike

I tested every single wide angle lenses 14 and down from Canon.
Except of 30% center of the frame the resolving power is not acceptable.
I didn’t test Nikon. I do not expect any revolution here.
Breathing and ability to keep focus when zooming in and out are the other factors that will bring you to the PL mount eventually.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I tested every single wide angle lenses 14 and down from Canon.
Except of 30% center of the frame the resolving power is not acceptable.
I didn’t test Nikon. I do not expect any revolution here.
Breathing and ability to keep focus when zooming in and out are the other factors that will bring you to the PL mount eventually.

14mm and down from Canon means you didn't test many lenses, because Canon offers very few lenses 14mm and down - just the 10-22, 8-15, and 14. The 14 2.8L II is an excellent lens and IMO will do well on Epic. Did you test Canon lenses above 14mm? Red has been testing Canon lenses in 5k on Epic for many months now, with excellent results - not just primes either, but they've also reported excellent results from the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS II zoom. Myself, Vincent LaForet, and others have used Canon lenses in 5k on Epic with excellent results. Have you personally used any Canon lenses on an Epic yet? Many of us have...

Breathing? Some 35mm still lenses breath a lot, and others don't. Those of us who've been working with Nikon and Canon lenses for many years now in 4k with Red One know the limitations and nuances of each lens. Keeping focus? Many 35mm still lenses, and not just newer ones, are of parfocal construction and hold focus very well throughout a zoom. Again, those of use who've been using 35mm still lenses for years on Red One know which lenses do best at holding focus through a zoom.

Bring us back to PL? You're kidding right? PL lenses are manual, and that's fine for cine style production. But the huge number of people who work in stills, hybrid, and EFP need electronic lenses to best do most of our work, then we simply switch to manual on the camera and lenses when we want to shoot full manual. Most hybrid work, many stills jobs, and non-hardlined EFP work all requires a high degree of mobility too. Besides being manual, PL lenses are expensive, huge, heavy, and require other bulky/heavy accessories like matte boxes and follow focus units - and all of that severely decreases mobility of the rig and thus limits the range of shot types possible. PL for cine style work yes - PL for stills, hybrid, and EFP work, definitely not. Think outside the cine style box and you'll see that a big portion of this industry has other needs than PL mounts, cine lenses, and cine accessories - and these new cameras from Red are DSMC cameras for that reason.

Horses for courses...and there's certainly no need to be cine-centric in one's approach to lensing and using these new DSMC cameras from Red, or even Red One for that matter.

 

[Tim Lüdin]

Yeah Gibby you are spot on with this.
I've used all PL lenses you can name on my RED in the last 4 years but the canons are very good. Some of the L-lenses are so good that it is hard to justify the money for UPs or such. UPs, S4s, MPs cost up to 10x as much but they are never ever so much better. In some cases they are only a bit better and so much heavier and more expensive.

I've used canon glass even on some commercials that ended up in theaters and the pictures quality was stunning.

So for me there is one big gamechanger hopefully coming sooner than later. It's the Redmote Pro. This thing will change in the lens world what RED changed in the camerabody world. Please RED bring this thing soon. My Birger won't work on my Epic in September so I'm kinda screwed.

Canon lenses and the Redmote Pro with larger focus throw to dial in via software. Can't beat that.

Tim

 

[Steve Wake]

...

Nikon mounts have a motor in the mount.. so that is a little more complicated... there is testing that goes on that is more hardware oriented and dependent. That is why we may offer a completely separate dumb mount for Nikon.

I assume the motor is for iris adjustment. Now that Nikon (finally) has a lineup of its best glass in AF-S, there would be no need to make a mount offering AF for the screw-drive "AF-D" lenses. An in-mount iris motor would still be needed to engage the mechanical aperture lever, since the only current Nikon lenses with in-lens electronic aperture are their PC-E tilt/shift lenses (E=electronic in this case, not the old series E). In its admirable attempt to ensure backward compatibility Nikon has created a nightmare for third-party developers like RED (and some development and marketing problems and choices for itself). So there are many mount options between completely dumb and completely electronic, and maybe those who plan to use a lot of Nikon glass could chime in and give RED some helpful feedback here. Choices I can think of:

1. Completely dumb: 100% manual, so not usable with G and no AF.

2A. Iris ring, no AF: Has ring and linkage to engage aperture lever so usable with G, still no AF. But hopefully with some electronics so camera shows T-stop and records into metadata. Maybe even with T-stop calibration software so you can use an external meter to calibrate displayed setting for consistency.

2B. Iris ring, with AF: has ring that engages aperture lever, AF with AF-S lenses. Software requires lens characterization.

3. Iris motor: electronic control of iris via in-mount motor. AF with AF-S lenses. Same software as above plus motor controls and characterization.

4. Iris motor plus "E": same as #3 but also has electronic control of iris on Nikon E lenses. Currently this includes only the newer PC-E lenses, but who knows what direction Nikon might take in the future? An additional software issue here might be controlling the iris for a smooth transition, since AFAIK the electronic iris is set up to adjust in steps. (Though it seems that could also be an issue with Canon electronic lenses -- hmm).

Personally, I'm getting Scarlet Fixed so I don't give a damn : ) However, those for whom these choices are important might be able to help RED and yourselves with some feedback.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I tested every single wide angle lenses 14 and down from Canon.
Except of 30% center of the frame the resolving power is not acceptable.
I didn’t test Nikon. I do not expect any revolution here.
Breathing and ability to keep focus when zooming in and out are the other factors that will bring you to the PL mount eventually.

Suggesting and/or implying that the Canon lenses that are designed and routinely used on 24 megapixel cameras and used by top professionals in areas (like print magazine, fine art prints, etc) that can actually use that resolution won't be sufficient for 13 megapixel Epic is sort of silly.

As far as lenses wider than 14mm - Except for possibly the new 12mm MP and maybe the 8mm UP (anyone checked?), virtually none of the "real" cinema lenses like the UPs, MPs, standards, supers, Cooke's, etc. etc. even COVER the 5K sensor. And the Zeiss Compact Primes are just converted still lenses (which is why they cover FF35), which bolsters the still lens argument.

We have already shot the Ruby 14-24 (converted nikon still lens) underwater on Epic and it works great, but we are looking forward to a Canon mount to use even wider lenses, without paying the 800% premium of having to get a converted still lens on a PL mount.

And let me reiterate, we have been extremely happy with Canon lenses on the Redone and have no real interest in PL on epic. For any customers that need PL we would just rent the mount along with the lenses.

So I would really like to see the option of getting the Canon with our Epic-X rather than the PL, even if it means taking delivery without a mount.

I have twenty Nikon mounts leftover from the AquaLens Nikon to Nikonos conversion units that we bought surplus to get the dome ports - making a Nikon dumb mount for the interim would be extremely easy for any halfway competent machinist - it's just a properly sized block of metal with four mountholes and some relief on the back, and four holes for the nikon mount that is a $20 stock part from Nikon - not as slick as Jacek's or Red's planned one for epic (with the positive lock) but the lens mount itself is just like the one on the RED1 Nikon mount and it works pretty well for millions of Nikon SLR owners. The Epic body mount design is much nicer so install is much easier than on a RED1.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Here's a frame grab from EPIC using a Nikon 18-200 V2 G lens....
the frame grab is taken while shooting at 18mm that seems to produce a crop factor of approximately 1.3

Camera Settings:

5k; 2.4 : 1 ; 24fps; shutter 180 degree; @ iso 320 & f8

 

[Petri Teittinen]

Jay, yes. But like Petri I would wait also. Hoping at least an inexpensive dumb mount would be available during the wait but if not, then I shoot next year instead of late this year. I've already pushed my plans forward, so I have learned acceptance.

I'm actually waiting for Allstar to announce an EPIC mounting plate for their A-mount for RED One. That should keep me very happy until RED gets their electronic Nikon mount out.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Except some fisheyes and the non L series 10-22, there really is little offerings from Canon below 14mm.

On another note, I 2nd, 3rd, 4th and ∞ that an iris only Canon mount would significantly more attractive and much more useable to this user. I very rarely use PL glass on my camera. Once I take delivery of the Epic, the option to use Canon glass will put me right to work.

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

I tested every single wide angle lenses 14 and down from Canon.
Except of 30% center of the frame the resolving power is not acceptable.
I didn’t test Nikon. I do not expect any revolution here.
Breathing and ability to keep focus when zooming in and out are the other factors that will bring you to the PL mount eventually.

I hear what you're saying; I'll try to scare up some tests on the Nikon 14-24; it really has no peer in the ultra-wide zoom category, Canon guys hate it!

The other issues are made more fuss of than I really think is justified; perhaps for narrative work they may be more of an issue, but for the EFP/docu stuff I'll be doing there's no problem - I'll shoot it mostly as a variable prime anyway.

Mike

 

[Gabriele Turchi]

guys what stages reservation are still open ?

is stage 3 still open ?

thanks

g

 

[patrickortman]

1. Completely dumb: 100% manual, so not usable with G and no AF.
Personally, I'm getting Scarlet Fixed so I don't give a damn : ) However, those for whom these choices are important might be able to help RED and yourselves with some feedback.

All my best Nikon glass is old, antique, even- outside the Zeiss ones- so fully dumb is perfectly OK for my purposes. Although, really, I've had success using a Canon with dumb adapter rings on my Nikon glass, too. They cost about $20 at B&H. Use 'em all the time when shooting on "that other camera we sometimes use". And before someone jumps down and tells me they're not perfect- you're right. But they work, in a lot of situations.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

guys what stages reservation are still open ?

is stage 3 still open ?

thanks

g

if you purchased your red before a certain date (cant remember which one, but it was last year) you are elligable for stage 3 as long you didnt void your warranty.

 

[Michael Hastings]

I hear what you're saying; I'll try to scare up some tests on the Nikon 14-24; it really has no peer in the ultra-wide zoom category, Canon guys hate it!

Mike

Canon supposedly has a 14-24L zoom coming soon. I have Nikon too but the all electronic of Canon made it easier to do smart mounts so they got supported first. Canon on Red1 has been great and full remote control of iris and focus is a godsend.

Nikon's mechanical iris actuation makes it more difficult, but it will also make it possible to do a smooth iris ramp whenever people get around to supporting it (I would recommend not holding one's breath). Canon's electronic iris steps - I think in 1/3 stop steps.

from canonrumors.com "However, a decent source that’s correct about 50% of the time sent me information about upcoming lenses from Canon.

I’m told an EF 14-24 f/2.8L and EF 24-70 f/2.8L II will be announced at the same time. Whether that’s with a new 1Ds or 5D Mark III was unknown. However, Q4, 2011 or Q1, 2012 was the timetable."

 

[Thomas Church]

According to CanonRumors.com, Canon is working on a 14-24 1.8 lens.

To me it's great news, because it means that at 14 you'll get roughly a 18mm S35 field on view on EPIC.

My plan is (at least initially) to own three lenses. This future 14-24, the 24-70 and the 50mm 1.4 for emergency low light situations.