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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SIGMA or TOKINA

Gene Sung said:
I was thinking about the Sigma Cine Prime set for early 2018.

What are your thoughts on the 20mm? I wish it were an 18mm. Also, sometimes I use screw on filters with XUME magnetic system when I need to work fast and the 20mm does not have front threads.

I do have the 18-35 still lens version which can make up for the wide.
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Personally, I think 20mm is a much more usable focal length than 18mm (on s35mm) for general purpose shooting, at 18mm things start to get pretty funky perspective wise. Having the 20mm for wide-angle work, with the option of the 14mm for REALLY wide work, offers a nice balance.

And as you say, there's always the 18-35mm to cover that inbetween bit if you need it.
 
i just did a quick and dirty test with a bunch of lens but was looking at the sigma and tokina offering also, the tokinas have more warmth to them, a bit more character and flare very nicely. Sigma was close to perfect nothing much to fault. In the end the vista primes seem like a nice fit for me, they are big but i'm fine with that.
Cheers
Ian
 
Daniel Kelly Brown said:
You think Celere lenses are on par with the sigma and tokina lenses? I really like how they are all the same weight, but I read somewhere that they were rehoused rokinon lenses.
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One of their focal lengths is "really on par" with a Sigma :)
 
I like this thread, even though there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer like "we've run all the tests and ..... is the best choice" I haver a bunch of Sigma ART stills glass that I use on the DSMC2 bodies and they look great. Some of them are even quite good at 1.4, others bloom just slightly but not near as bad as Canon L glass does wide open. By F2 it all goes away. I tested the stills glass on Monster VV and they cover fine, even the 12-24mm zoom covered, however when you close focus at 12mm you start to see the lens hood in Full 8K. My 14 1.8 on Monster VV was disappointing however the corners were soft.
 
I think that either option is going to give a DP the potential to create amazing images. Like many lense tests and comparisons, yes there might be some differences, but overall when it comes to look and feel they are completely subjective fields. Go with which set you like best and serves the project and/or business goals.
 
I've got all 3 sets with me now. Sigma and Celere are mine, Tokinas I'm testing.


Optically they are all different.

Celere has more classic feel... Not as crisp and as clean as the other too. They remind me more of Ultra primes or Leica R's. Sharper than Super speeds - Nice creamy feel - Lens housing, sizes, weight, focus rings are super smooth. love the build quality. I use these when I'm shoot people, very filmic.

Sigma's are sharp. Very clean, not much in the way of a character lens, Photographers love them. I'm finding I have to add post effects to give my images a look. But remember some people like that clean look. I use these more for my effects work. They are a perfect size, not too big and heavy.

Tokinas are also very very sharp. Great edge sharpness over the other two, Really sharp wide open, CA is least of the 3 / Only gripe, they are just too bloody big and heavy for me. As I like to shoot alot of hand held work. Awesome lens still.

All three are great choices. All different brushes.

Question to ask, will you get good support from the manufacturer. Hard to talk to a SIGMA tech, TOKINA ?.. Celere is made by a small group of German guys who are always ready to support you.

'Like most people, just buy a set you think has the best logo on the side of it and people think your cool for having them. hahahaha. You cna shoot a great film on a iphone.
 
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I have only used Sigma Stills glass but I don't find them "boring" at all. I feel they have a nice bokeh and are generally pretty when wide open or close to it. I would say they are modern looking but not sterile. But when I want to go with a more vintage or romantic look I pull out the Leica Rs. Its amazing that lenses like the Sigmas, Tokinas etc. are good low cost alternatives to MPs or other expensive cine lenses. When you factor in the fact that they cover VV maybe they are and even better choice, money aside.
 
Olivier Gresse said:
Tokina Cinema Vista 50mm Quick Breathing Test :

https://vimeo.com/242191171
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This was my experience with the Tokinas as well. There's negligible breathing and CA. I love the size of the Sigmas and the speed, sharpness of both sets is fine, but the Sigmas breathe quite a bit more than the Tokinas. It's a compromise, because -- like Mark -- I love the size of the Sigmas. I own the 18-35 (GL) and use it all the time but on people I really like the look of the Tokinas.
 
FWIW, unless you really dig the look of the Tokinas vs the Sigmas, I'd be inclined to go with the smaller and lighter option. Mobile shooting styles, gimbals, tiny camera bodies, travel logistics and other modern expectations for versatility all run counter to using large, heavy primes. Sigma also has some fast, affordable FF zooms that should cut well with the primes.

I haven't shot with the Tokina Vistas, perhaps they look so good that I'd be willing to ignore size/weight...

I think it's also worth noting, that in a modern production pipeline, there are plenty of tools to add "personality" to a clean, "clinical" image. YMMV, but I'd much rather be adding "seasoning" to a clean image than trying to dance around lens characteristics that may not suit a particular creative goal.

Cheers - #19
 
Mark Toia said:
I've got all 3 sets with me now. Sigma and Celere are mine, Tokinas I'm testing.


Optically they are all different.

Celere has more classic feel... Not as crisp and as clean as the other too. They remind me more of Ultra primes or Leica R's. Sharper than Super speeds - Nice creamy feel - Lens housing, sizes, weight, focus rings are super smooth. love the build quality. I use these when I'm shoot people, very filmic.

Sigma's are sharp. Very clean, not much in the way of a character lens, Photographers love them. I'm finding I have to add post effects to give my images a look. But remember some people like that clean look. I use these more for my effects work. They are a perfect size, not too big and heavy.

Tokinas are also very very sharp. Great edge sharpness over the other two, Really sharp wide open, CA is least of the 3 / Only gripe, they are just too bloody big and heavy for me. As I like to shoot alot of hand held work. Awesome lens still.

All three are great choices. All different brushes.

Question to ask, will you get good support from the manufacturer. Hard to talk to a SIGMA tech, TOKINA ?.. Celere is made by a small group of German guys who are always ready to support you.

'Like most people, just buy a set you think has the best logo on the side of it and people think your cool for having them. hahahaha. You cna shoot a great film on a iphone.
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Great info, thanks Mark. My big question is how the Schneider Xenon FF set hold up to these three. Any experience there? Phil Holland has a lot to say about them, your thoughts?
 
I'm so torn.

After shooting with the Summicron Cines for a month I really want a personal set of 95mm diameter cine glass and the Leicas are well out of budget.

The Sigmas have everything except unacceptable amounts of focus breathing and some CA.

The Tokinas seem perfect except at 114mm they are just too big for my more run and gun approach to production.

Never seen a Celere in the wild. Might have to rent some and test them. Hear both great and terrible things about them depending on which day of the week it is.

I know it's become like a dirty word around here but what about the CP3s? I guess it's worth waiting until the superspeed versions are out to really tell.
 
Ben Scott said:
I'm so torn.

After shooting with the Summicron Cines for a month I really want a personal set of 95mm diameter cine glass and the Leicas are well out of budget.

The Sigmas have everything except unacceptable amounts of focus breathing and some CA.

The Tokinas seem perfect except at 114mm they are just too big for my more run and gun approach to production.

Never seen a Celere in the wild. Might have to rent some and test them. Hear both great and terrible things about them depending on which day of the week it is.

I know it's become like a dirty word around here but what about the CP3s? I guess it's worth waiting until the superspeed versions are out to really tell.
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I've still not had time to post anything here (just back from Thessaloniki)

But my issue with all the Zeiss's is that the purple fringing and the green/magenta cast around the bokeh and highlights is something personally that i don't like. The Contax are better because i think they're softer. I feel that Zeiss trade sharpness for these CA effects. The Otus don't show these because they're APO (nor does the 135 version)

So i have the SLR Magic APO Hyperprimes at the moment, 25, 50 and 85 and IMHO i think they're fantastic. They're similar size, about 1kg, full cine focus and T2.1 but i think they look wonderful, a lovely focus fall off, soft creamy bokeh and smooth but not overly sharp. The proof is in the pudding and so when i can grab some time i will do some side by sides and post a new thread. The CA is very well controlled and to my eye they just feel wonderful.

The only downside is that there're only 3 of them at the moment.

And i don't know why these haven't come up before. Is it the name?

(they appear to come with Leica end caps though, if that makes a difference ;) )

cheers
Paul
 

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paulcurtis said:
I've still not had time to post anything here (just back from Thessaloniki)

But my issue with all the Zeiss's is that the purple fringing and the green/magenta cast around the bokeh and highlights is something personally that i don't like. The Contax are better because i think they're softer. I feel that Zeiss trade sharpness for these CA effects. The Otus don't show these because they're APO (nor does the 135 version)

So i have the SLR Magic APO Hyperprimes at the moment, 25, 50 and 85 and IMHO i think they're fantastic. They're similar size, about 1kg, full cine focus and T2.1 but i think they look wonderful, a lovely focus fall off, soft creamy bokeh and smooth but not overly sharp. The proof is in the pudding and so when i can grab some time i will do some side by sides and post a new thread. The CA is very well controlled and to my eye they just feel wonderful.

The only downside is that there're only 3 of them at the moment.

And i don't know why these haven't come up before. Is it the name?

(they appear to come with Leica end caps though, if that makes a difference ;) )

cheers
Paul
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I just spent a day at Nick Morrison's Contax lair. We ran through 35 Zeiss Contax/Hassy legacy lenses on my Monstro 8k. Contax compact cream meets Monstro detail and depth. From 18mm to the 100-300, every single one was competent, most were excellent and more than a few were- I don't believe it, jaw on the floor, FMP beauties. 28 f2 is called "Hollywood"?, yes it is. The small 2.8's as Nick called them-road lenses, and the 30-70 Sonnar will go with Monstro everywhere, no matter what else is in the kit. The Hassies? Stunning.

I have the SLR APO's. I basically agree with what you are saying- a competent, though as yet incomplete pl lens system. They are much more contrasty than the Contax, so make a good alternative pairing.

I took them out yesterday for the first time since I got my Stormtrooper upgraded to Monstro8K. The 50 and 85 cover 8k, the 25 only up to 7k. I am hoping that the 32 will cover 8K when it comes out. If they could add a 20, 40 and longish tele covering 8k, all APO, it would be a fine set.

The lenses are compact (for a pl), the SLR (only) pl to ef and pl to Sony E adapters work fine and they have some specialty bespoke filters that are interesting. If you shoot into lights you will find a use for them- especially at their cost- no matter what else you use, they truly seem APO.

A Monstro surprise- My Canon CNE 50 and 85, wide open, high ISO, glamour lighting- luscious beauty. Some crank on Canon but the skin tone is there right out of the box.

All the above being said-

Ous55/Monstro8/DaVinci14

Light/Brush/Canvas
 
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Ben Scott said:
I'm so torn.

After shooting with the Summicron Cines for a month I really want a personal set of 95mm diameter cine glass and the Leicas are well out of budget.

The Sigmas have everything except unacceptable amounts of focus breathing and some CA.

The Tokinas seem perfect except at 114mm they are just too big for my more run and gun approach to production.

Never seen a Celere in the wild. Might have to rent some and test them. Hear both great and terrible things about them depending on which day of the week it is.

I know it's become like a dirty word around here but what about the CP3s? I guess it's worth waiting until the superspeed versions are out to really tell.
Click to expand...

I don't find the breathing on my set of Sigma primes to be an issue. Have you done a proper side by side comparison ? The 50-100 zoom is bad and I think it's reputation has spilled over a bit onto the other lenses.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
scott devitte said:
The lenses are compact (for a pl), the SLR (only) pl to ef and pl to Sony E adapters work fine and they have some specialty bespoke filters that are interesting. If you shoot into lights you will find a use for them- especially at their cost- no matter what else you use, they truly seem APO.
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C7 adapters do PL to EF mount and they work great with the Hyperprimes, the adapters are priced so you can buy 3 and leave them on the lenses. The SLR home grown is quite expensive.

I don't find them more contrasty than the contax (i have a full set of those too) but they can work nicely together.

I don't think i've seen any issues with the 25 on the helium 8k (Monster obviously different ball game).

I'm aware of that 32mm and talk of 135 and also an 18. They would be nice additions so long as that 18 was full frame...

cheers
Paul
 
Matt Uhry said:
I don't find the breathing on my set of Sigma primes to be an issue. Have you done a proper side by side comparison ? The 50-100 zoom is bad and I think it's reputation has spilled over a bit onto the other lenses.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
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i am very sure this is what has happened..
 
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