Should Red bother with CF port on Epic?

[David Battistella]

Option 4: I do not use CF cards and can't afford the SSD option.
So I will keep using the RAID drives.

You might not get the full performance the camera can provide if you stick to that media.

It would be a shame to buy a camera that can do so much and then not buy the "add on" that actaully allows you to benefit from what the technology has to offer.

You can't get ALL of what EPIC is capable of on RED Drives or CF cards and that is why the SSD kinda mandatory.


Buying EPIC without SSD is like buying a Ferrari that only goes to third gear.

David

 

[Michael Hastings]

I thought I heard that there would be a CF to SSD Adapter, I hope that there is some option, either CF to SSD, or straight CF module. Over the years and projects we have invested in almost all forms of storage for our Red, and CF makes up a large portion of our media.

It would be a shame to not be able to use this going forward.

Any info on this would be great.

Thanks

Yes, I believe Jim said there would be an adapter that would fit into the SSD module and hold CF cards - so a dedicated CF unit probably isn't necessary. Should be sufficient to keep those who have a big investment in CF cards happy, but probably will still need to be RED CF or the original Lexar 8gb cards.

 

[David Battistella]

Paul,

This poll is a tricky one.

If I answer A then I have to consider all of the cost and unlocking the full potential of the technology.

If I answer B then I have to cap the modes I am going to use in the camera and agree to handcuff myself creatively, for clients and prospective rentals

If I answer C then I am not getting the SIDE SSD Module (but they might be very easy to SWAP out CF and SSD on the side. So this might mean that I am going to go with a package that is heavier with a SSD module and a SIDE CF module.

Lots of choices there.

It's making me feel like Option C makes sense, but I would do anything to not carry the weight of an extra rear module.

I think it's best to dump CF altogether and just go for a side SSD module and then I get to use every feature I am getting with the camera in a lightweight package.

David

 

[Colin Hubick]

I imagine like the other media options, we will move into SSD, no problem with that, just want the option to use the CF cards. I thought I heard that by using the CF cards you wouldn't have access to some recording options, but that is no different than 8GB cards being slower than the 16GB cards, and limiting the options by using the 8GB ones.

thanks
Colin

 

[David Battistella]

I imagine like the other media options, we will move into SSD, no problem with that, just want the option to use the CF cards. I thought I heard that by using the CF cards you wouldn't have access to some recording options, but that is no different than 8GB cards being slower than the 16GB cards, and limiting the options by using the 8GB ones.

thanks
Colin

You can. I think that you just get the CF on the side of the brain and the SSD MODULE and attach it.

VIOLA. you have both.

David


relevent info in this thread as well.
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=52455

 

[Frazier Nivens]

SSD Drives, compact flash option, but doubt that I'll use them with SSD drives available....This is going to make the UW housing for the RED One smaller and more compact without the RED Drive...Less weight, easier to use...UW and on the surface...

Waiting to buy tomorrow as soon as it's up in the store.

 

[David Battistella]

Let's just go SSD and trust that RED will make it all work out well. We all want this to be the best and RED wants the camera to be used the way it is intended.

CF handcuffs the EPIC, I bet RED has done a TON of R&D and tried to make CF work (at one point there was going to be a 64GB option but we knwo that SSD will replace the older CF media.

This is the plus with RED, it can adapt to what is most available. With others we could be wishing for SSD and then only getting CF "in this version" RED is flexible enough to move into what is best for RIGHT NOW.

David

 

[Mark Andersen]

This has been said many times but I'm going to say it again. Why would anyone want to use anything other than SSD? Doing so will handicap the Epic and render many of the coolest features useless. At it's core one of the greatest differences between the Epic and R1 is high data rates that enable better red codes, much better Slomo, HDRx etc. Using CF cards is kinda like turning the Epic back into the R1, except for the size and form factor. SSD is the future, embrace it. If there is something I'm missing here or overstating, please folks, correct me.

 

[David Battistella]

This has been said many times but I'm going to say it again. Why would anyone want to use anything other than SSD? Doing so will handicap the Epic and render many of the coolest features useless. At it's core one of the greatest differences between the Epic and R1 is high data rates that enable better red codes, much better Slomo, HDRx™ etc. Using CF cards is kinda like turning the Epic back into the R1, except for the size and form factor. SSD is the future, embrace it. If there is something I'm missing here or overstating, please folks, correct me.

Yeah. Makes sense.

It turns out SSD is the way to go. That was not the case with initial R1 and that is fine.

The last thing anyone will want is to get to a shot where the HDR mode is really critical and then see an X with a "sorry your media is too slow" message. It's just a drag.

I guess it would be cool if you have the side CF and the recording could rollover to the rear module, allowing for continuous long takes. The smaller SSD's are going to get eaten up pretty quick and that can be problematic for certain kinds of producitons.

-documentary interviews
-wildlife docs
-concert films

I'm always thinking about non studio, non controlled, non DIT, environments and long take situations.

Here, the system is very flexible though too. IE. I can carry REDDRIVE for long take interviews that don't require the high data rates and wide DR and SSD for other footage, but the tradeoff would be worth it.

The amount of data is going UP, but drive are getting larger too, it's all tradeoffs.

David

 

[Antonio Forjaz]

SSD all the way.... And for the RedOne MX as well....

 

[Dominic Jones]

I don't really see the point in even bothering with a CF module for Epic (read Epic/Scarlet if you wish).

I agree that SSD Module being the default for Epic (X and M models, at least) makes tons of sense. For Scarlet, not so much...

A full SSD recording solution for Scarlet (and remember we're talking 2/3" 3K now when we say Scarlet) is going to more than double the price of the system, and for a lot of potential Scarlet owners, I suspect that's going to be a deal-breaker. Not to mention that the datarates coming out of a 3K sensor are not going to be so astronomical, and therefore I guess may well not (at least unless you're hitting very high framerates) need the grunt of SSD mags.

I would suggest that a low cost media solution that can handle 3K @ 60fps, RC7.5:1 / 10:1 or so and up to 30fps in RC 5:1 would be perfect for the majority of indie users, who could then choose to rent some SSDs and the relevant modules for the odd days when they are shooting high-speed. Whether or not CF cards are the solution to this (or if there's anything else out there that can do that and is well suited to on-camera recording), I don't know...

Even for the Epic-S (did that get settled on as the name?!) - assuming that the price doesn't increase drastically from the old "Scarlet S35" price that was mooted - I think you would probably see a lot of indie folk preferring a cheaper storage option than the SSD solution would entail.

But... For those investing in Epic-X/M systems, I can't see going with anything other than SSD media making much sense at all - so for me, it would make sense if those packages shipped with the SSD module as standard (for the relevant price increase, of course)...

Cheers,
Dom.

 

[Ryan Patch]

I would normally say that SSD would absolutely be the way to go. However, Scarlet and Epic will both be brilliant documentary cameras. For documentary shooters (and anyone who does a lot of smaller-crew, remote-location films), it's not just about the ease of the media, but ease of downloading the media. The great thing about CF cards is that you can download them to a Nexto DI device in the field with no AC power, and a compact unit that's much less susceptible to the elements than a laptop with a reader device (or Red Station) attached.

 

[George Butterfield]

Do you guys know anything about the 2.5" SSD? Will a 2.5" SSD module be made for the side of the EPIC. Would this 2.5" SSD module be able to accept 1.8" SSDs? Would it be better to have a brian with a 1.8" SSD or a 2.5" SSD, what are the pros and cons?

 

[Brian Petrie]

Do you guys know anything about the 2.5" SSD? Will a 2.5" SSD module be made for the side of the EPIC. Would this 2.5" SSD module be able to accept 1.8" SSDs? Would it be better to have a brian with a 1.8" SSD or a 2.5" SSD, what are the pros and cons?

The 2.5" is ONLY to offload media onto. It never gets connected to the camera in any way, only 1.8" SSD is on the camera. So you get a Red base station, a Red CF or SSD reader all connected to the Red 2.5" station and then you can make duplicates of the CF/SSD media onto cheap 2.5" drives saving you money/time over using Factory encased drives to offload to.

 

[Johnny Friday]

Good bye CF cards.....NEVER AGAIN!

 

[Johnny Friday]

.....CF station---i think is also a wasted effort at this point for RED.

 

[George Butterfield]

The 2.5" is ONLY to offload media onto. It never gets connected to the camera in any way, only 1.8" SSD is on the camera. So you get a Red base station, a Red CF or SSD reader all connected to the Red 2.5" station and then you can make duplicates of the CF/SSD media onto cheap 2.5" drives saving you money/time over using Factory encased drives to offload to.

Oh, thanks for the info, I was confused ... it's a really great system! I got three months to write a feature!