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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Should RED be using an Adobe CC Upgrade Model?

Zeb B

Zeb B

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Perhaps it's worth a conversation to have upgrade costs be at a fixed ongoing monthly cost so those in business can have a predictable cash flow. Let's say if RED upgrades are an average of $15K per year, then just have an auto-pay of $1250/month. That provides RED a steady funding source for R&D and those who want to participate in having the latest in RED releases get on the program. Those who don't can be happy with buying at the one time bi-annual (every other year) cost of the above example rate of a one time $30K when they feel the need to upgrade.

Shipping order can be done via Silver, Gold and Platinum levels whereby that same $1250 is escalated to $1500 or $2000 to get Second or First in Line Priority. Rental Companies and high budget users who want the newest releases won't have an issue with a higher monthly cost. Those who can wait save money. Just like Air Travel: Coach, Business and First Class

This would completely avoid the trauma that was Scarlet pre-NAB / Weapon NAB Upgrade and move away from the Carbon body material being the method of First Shipment Out upgrade priority.

https://creative.adobe.com/plans

Seems simple . . . am I missing something here?
 
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Every upgrade would need an upgrade to post production hardware or it would require new supporting gear etc. This deal might be great for some, but a subscription for hardware is not like a a subscription for software.
 
WTF, no! I like to make my own decision based on actual needs and opportunities, also this way of vote with your wallet is probably the most effective way of feedback regarding product development.
I can only look at this as being a late April 1st suggestion...
 
Those who hate CC don't have to sign up. Just pay as you go but you should be last in line for the upgrades since it is those monthly payments that fund R&D and therefore reduce the risk for those who do not subscribe. Also, subscription is for those who want to have camera ownership like a regular business expense. Like a truck payment, office rent or insurance. Makes for a real easy "rent vs. own" decision knowing exactly what owning actually costs. When you look at camera ownership starting at $400/week, and climbing quickly, you might look in the business model mirror and ask some basic questions about ownership. It's not for everyone.

The program would cover the Brain (including basic modules like card reader / side handle or equal) and Memory Cards. I see no difference in subscription based costs of specific hardware versus software since they are both rapidly changing so need to be updated at least every year. Do you own the server that your website is hosted on?

Oh and, that way the Warranty Coverage is continuous - eliminating another unknown expense. Again, with a tiered level system where Platinum Members getting replacement / loaner cameras overnight and Silver getting let's say 3 business day turnaround on Warranty issues. Non-subscribers have whatever original warranty that comes with their purchase.

Hard to imagine a better system than the one in place . . . but thought I might put it out there ;-)
 
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I understand paying monthly for a service or utility or repay a debt, but a camera is none of those things. I mean, I have a loan for my camera but that debt is largely separate from the camera itself. edit: Mine is entirely separate, though I understand not all are.

It sounds like what you really want is a lease directly from Red where lessors receive first priority at release time.
 
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Do you get to keep the camera as your property after the upgrade payments are summed up to a total cost, or are you keep paying for it as long as you use the camera like with CC?

If it's the former than I think it's not such a bad idea, looks just like any financing plan. If it's the latter - not for me.
 
Seems more like being a lender rather than a borrower.

That is, loaning RED money to make products as opposed to perhaps being a borrower to buy their products? I've got money on account at RED right now, but I do not want to use that in lieu of my mattress.

Life is linear but with exponential moments. I want my money where I can get it quickly during one of those exponential moments
 
Oh please, no. I'm already an indentured servant to subscriptions! I would gladly pay more to have the perpetual licence I bought in the first place from Adobe and will abandon them as soon as it is practicable.
 
The idea of the subscription is mostly given by companies who are traded at the stock-market. This allows them to provide software updates with new features without having the customers to invoice them. It is, so our CEO, not allowed to give things for free away if you are traded on the, e.g., Wall St. (… even if Apple does it often, but with their stock-development, no one cares obviously.)

Given the week of NAB, I do not see that there is a good expectation management. With paying each month, there would be an enormous expectation. To have paid the whole year and don't get the top of the line, I can't even think of the noise in the forum... It would as well interrupted a natural flow of development, as expectations would build up. Delay in delivery, wow that would be war.

On the other hand, many people work project wise, sometimes too much, sometimes too little. Not really a compatible life/work-style for this idea, based on random income.

Anyway, the idea is great, as long as it is an alternative. To just go only with that, like Adobe does is not my taste, not at all. I replace Adobe more and more, and it seems to work better and better for me.

Think of the next step, you might end up only leasing the camera, and need a code to unlock it once a month.
 
Zeb B said:
Those who hate CC don't have to sign up.
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I don´t hate CC, just hate the subscription model. You don´t have to sign up? Lol. It´s a monopolist´s game, I had to sign up to stay in business with my partners.
Seriously looking for other ways. Like Hugh Skully I´d easily spend the money for a paid version, as this will let me continue to have access to my legacy projects once I should decide to get out of the renting system. No, not a fan at all.

Cheers,

Ulf
 
Isn't this already available? You can deposit money in your account right now and let it sit there until you are ready to spend it.
 
Kind of ironic, people complain a lot about the cost of upgrades and how it is hard to plan for the costs of upgrades and managing cash flow and running their business more efficiently but, when provided with a possible solution, they are equally resistant.

Zeb - might there be a bit of mischief behind posting this idea? ;-)
 
Terry VerHaar said:
Kind of ironic, people complain a lot about the cost of upgrades and how it is hard to plan for the costs of upgrades and managing cash flow and running their business more efficiently but, when provided with a possible solution, they are equally resistant.

Zeb - might there be a bit of mischief behind posting this idea? ;-)
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But "people" come in all types Terry, each with their own unique needs and views. We are not one size fits all, obviously so this might sound good to some and others not so much.

I keep saying that this idea is in essence just a lease. The difference I see is in the first preference idea. Manufacturers tend to want their cash in hand and give special perks to those who can pony up the whole wad. There is risk in offering credit and it sours relationships when you have to put people into collection. It's expensive too.

I don't see any real incentive for them to give benefits to folks on payments, and it would sure piss off those who do pay in full to have to get in line behind those who do not.
 
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This is an entertaining thread but the concept of hardware subscriptions seems problematic on several fronts. The first is that RED does and should be able to take its sweet time getting things right. I'd venture that Weapon took longer than a year to develop. But if the subscription model rests on $15k (or some other amount) annually then subscribers would expect a milestone upgrade on a yearly basis. That doesn't seem realistic or in the interest of delivering the best products only when they're fully developed and not rushed to meet an annual requirement. Dr. Sassi hit it on the head that expectation is everything when if comes to consumer happiness.

Also, if a camera requires $15k in upgrades a year, count me out. There's little chance to make an ROI under that scenario. BTW I don't feel that way about RED at all. My Epic MX has performed great, and I expect a good return on the dragon.
 
Scott Crawley said:
But "people" come in all types Terry, each with their own unique needs and views. We are not one size fits all, obviously so this might sound good to some and others not so much.
Click to expand...

Well, I tend to think this go without saying. I should have said "some people."
 
It's a serious proposition. What would you pay to have available the newest RED products that are eternally warrantied and with Platinum Club response to all your needs. Like Ryan Bingham in "Up in the Air" - express lines and Club only access to cool stuff.

Funny how folks have issues with the CC concept of making a making a fixed monthly expense to allow both them and RED to have a level cash flow . . . but many have no issue with sending in $10K for a camera that does not exist.

Just seems like it would make the Cost of Ownership better defined. Amortize the initial $50K over 3 years ($1300/month) then add the average annual $15K upgrade and warranty costs equals maybe $2500/month. Just trying to find a better way then what I call "The Pig in the Python" approach . . . eating one 200lb meal each month, then processing that lump, instead of 4 small meals per day.

Any better ideas out there on financing RED's R&D and creating predictable cash flow for the RU's?
 
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