Should i buy a Red Scarlet now?

[Patrick A.]

Hi,


Sorry for my english.

We want to buy two Scarlet for shooting a serie of 24 episode in mid-august, but i'm not 100% sure that this is a good investment since the announcement of the BMPC 4K which is cheaper.
What would you have done in our place if when you intended to buy your scarlet, blackmagic would have announced his BMPC?


Best Regards,

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Try to test shoot their "older" 2k model (make a 30 min short in 4 days). Download, post-produce and then make your decision if it's good for you.

4k will add more data but the rest will be the same.

If you'r happy, stay with BMC.

I would go for the Scarlet/Epic, for me R3D compression is key.

Pat

 

[Björn Benckert]

I worked with both BMC and scarlet.
I would not choose the BMC over the scarlet even if it was for free.

Especially not if there was some serious amount of material that needed to go through the pipe. You mentioned 24 episodes, you do not shoot that without a budget... Camera cost could not possibly be the major thing in such budget.

Any how I can assure you that the scarlet will pay off:
1. as a camera it's simply far better.
2. R3D is a fantastic format, shooting scarlet 6:1 will do exactly that, cut all your transfer times, discspace and data access speed needs down to 1/6. Further more you cut/edit in proxy on just about any computer.

So regarding the price you make back the extra Scarlet money spent on Disc storage alone compared to if you do try to shoot 24 episodes raw on the black magic 4k.... and also you have to consider there are many scarlets out there, BMC4k... not so many. Further more for your shoots that need more you can rent in an epic and shoot higher speed, HDRx, less compression etc and the material will match like it was from the same camera as the scarlet. Also by the time you shoot you probably can have the dragon available when needed as well. Simply Scarlet soon have two bigger brothers to lean against, BMC4k... is on it's own in that regard.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I am not sure BMC4k will even be shipping by August with their track record...

You can always rent for now, figure out a buy to own situation later?

 

[Ricky Guing Senen]

I worked with both BMC and scarlet.
I would not choose the BMC over the scarlet even if it was for free.

Especially not if there was some serious amount of material that needed to go through the pipe. You mentioned 24 episodes, you do not shoot that without a budget... Camera cost could not possibly be the major thing in such budget.

Any how I can assure you that the scarlet will pay off:
1. as a camera it's simply far better.
2. R3D is a fantastic format, shooting scarlet 6:1 will do exactly that, cut all your transfer times, discspace and data access speed needs down to 1/6. Further more you cut/edit in proxy on just about any computer.

So regarding the price you make back the extra Scarlet money spent on Disc storage alone compared to if you do try to shoot 24 episodes raw on the black magic 4k.... and also you have to consider there are many scarlets out there, BMC4k... not so many. Further more for your shoots that need more you can rent in an epic and shoot higher speed, HDRx, less compression etc and the material will match like it was from the same camera as the scarlet. Also by the time you shoot you probably can have the dragon available when needed as well. Simply Scarlet soon have two bigger brothers to lean against, BMC4k... is on it's own in that regard.

I totally agree with Bjorn. Get a Scarlet. R3D is the key. BMC has no wow factor.

 

[Patrick A.]

Thank's for yours answers

You mentioned 24 episodes, you do not shoot that without a budget... Camera cost could not possibly be the major thing in such budget.


So regarding the price you make back the extra Scarlet money spent on Disc storage alone compared to if you do try to shoot 24 episodes raw on the black magic 4k....

Yes but we are not a superproduction, the production has already two Sony XDCAM and they had not planned to remplace it, so a part of the purchase of the Scarlet will come from our pockets.

About the raw, i believe that the BMPC raw is compressed (and there is Prores 4K too).

But i think we'll finally buy two Scarlet.

 

[Michel Rabe]

Where are you from? Thought about buying a used Scarlet?

 

[Jared Caldwell]

As there is no footage from the BMC4k, nor a hard release date, it's difficult to compare the two cameras.

If you go on specs, the BMC4k has some interesting factors compared to Scarlet. I think the most important things are: dynamic range, sensor sensitivity, color science, and resolved detail.

Dynamic Range
Scarlet MX: advertised 13.5 stops of resolution.
BMC4k: advertised 12 stops.

Sensitivity
Scarlet MX: thought to be rated at ISO 800 (correct me if I'm wrong).
BMC4k: thought to be rated at ISO 400 - 640.

Color Science
The current BMCC is said to have the best color science second only to the Alexa. This is subjective.

Resolved Detail
Scarlet MX: OLPF, 4k.
BMC4k: No OLPF, 4k.
Scarlet has an OLPF, so the images will not be as sharp as the BMC4k camera; however, Scarlet also has no moire nor aliasing. Most view the OLPF as a positive. There will be some instances where you will get a moire/aliasing free image out of the BMC4k that will be sharper than the Scarlet image, but you have tradeoffs here. The BMC4k is rumored to have a third party OLPF in the works, but that is not 100% confirmed.

For the price, it's hard to beat the BMC4k, but in terms of direct comparison, it's not exactly apples to apples. There are tradeoffs. I speculate that the dynamic range and sensor sensitivity of the Scarlet will be better than the BMC4k, but you will have to do your own tests.

If you need to shoot today, well, there really is only one choice. Hope this helps.

 

[Patrick A.]

Where are you from? Thought about buying a used Scarlet?

I'm from France, and yes i'm excited to buy a used Scarlet but there are no offers here.

Color Science
The current BMCC is said to have the best color science second only to the Alexa. This is subjective.

Thank's you for your answer Jared , i'm interested to know who have said that? (test?)

Best Regards,

 

[Michel Rabe]

Further down on Reduser there's the sub-forum Marketplace: Red stuff, you can check for used Scarlets from France there from time to time.
But be aware that you will have to pay a fee for ownership-transfer, $500 at least so count that in when looking at offers. Also, as far as I remember, warranty will be limited to 90 days.

 

[Adrien Le Lorier]

Bonjour Patrick!
Comme nous sommes sur un forum anglophone je continuerais en anglais!

I m currently crossing the same path as you right now. My budget is tight (10K € is my maximum at this time).
There are 3 viable option for me:
-Find a cheap used RED Scarlet, but i'll end up with no back up camera and may struggle with the R3D on very small budget project and my camera will be almost naked .
-used Sony FS700 with convergent design odyssey7Q (the most appeling/versatile option for me).
-BMPC4K With full rig , battery , EVF and SSD , FF , mattebox and hot mirror

The thing is owning a camera is a huge responsability... and you need a few spare part or a deal with a rental house to rent you a camera in emergency in case of a problem on the set.

That's why i'll probably go for black magic solution : you can buy a BMCC mft with a speed booster(if you use electronic iris glass, remenber have to change it via an electronic mount ex: small canon dslr; if not get an ef version) , sell your 2nd Davinci dongle and have a camera that can do the trick if your main cam shut down for any reason. + you have a B-cam if you need it. the rest of the money, in your case, can go into post production hardware or lenses.
Before choosing , i'll personally want to play with footage of both FS700+odyssey and BMPC4K. I secretly hope that FS700 will kick ass cause i have plenty of very good FD lenses .