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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Should i be shooting 5k?

Lee Kelly

Lee Kelly

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I had this idea that, if i can, i should shoot the highest resolution i can...right?
I was talking with a friend who has no idea about this topic and he made some analogy that got me thinking.

Will compressing 5k footage to 1920x1080 pro res 422HQ look cleaner than doing the same export of 4,3 or 2k clips?
I always figured that compressing something that is already the highest quality with more information etc will look much better than compressing something that is already lower resolution.
Does this make sense?
Am i wasting my time shooting 5k if the end result is a web clip or will my 5k footage look much better on the web than someone who shot the exact same thing with a 5dmk2?
 
the more resolution you start out with the better the output will look. Subsampling produces sharper and more vibrant looking images with less apparent noise.

Also, you have the option to do reframing, and digital moves, stabilization, etc. if your intended delivery is 4k or below. So yes, shoot 5K if you can...

Theres more to it then just the camera though, it's the person behind it and their knowledge of cinematography (yes that means lighting) and exposing... So any camera can outperform another based on the individuals skills. But I will say shooting RED and RAW gives you an enormous advantage.
 
You will also get a different DOF and different lens coverage depending on your resolution. So if you're looking for a S35 look you don't want to be shooting at 2K.
 
Yeah thanks for the reply guys,
I completely understand the dof and field of view at different sensor crop resolutions my question was meant to specifically ask if i shoot 5k and export to pro res, edit my clip and then export from fcp and compressor for vimeo, will my shots look better (crisp, clean, clear etc) compared to shooting the exact same scene at the exact same time with the exact same lens field of view etc in 4,3 or 2k.
Ive seen some pretty nice clean results from 5dmk2 files on the web so hoping red 5k will look 10x the price better ha ha
 
Well like I explained theres a lot more to a good image than just the resolution, but shooting at 5k already gives you that advantage. The rest is up to you.

Yes given your shooting the same shot with the same glass and same exposure, the EPIC will give far superior images. Once downscaled to 1080, look out (even more amazing). Plus shooting 5k is future proof. 4k is upon us and 1080p won't cut it.
 
If you are doing color correction or effects including dissolves keep the highest res. Just an edit won't matter. But hey, edit in proxies right? Really why not just go 5k unless space is a problem.
 
I've seen this question asked a lot on the forum, so I thought it would be helpful to create a short info graphic to assist you when you're not entirely sure if you need, or should be shooting at high resolutions. Hopefully this helps:

YSbEY.png
 
Lee Kelly said:
Yeah thanks for the reply guys,
I completely understand the dof and field of view at different sensor crop resolutions my question was meant to specifically ask if i shoot 5k and export to pro res, edit my clip and then export from fcp and compressor for vimeo, will my shots look better (crisp, clean, clear etc) compared to shooting the exact same scene at the exact same time with the exact same lens field of view etc in 4,3 or 2k.
Ive seen some pretty nice clean results from 5dmk2 files on the web so hoping red 5k will look 10x the price better ha ha
Click to expand...

On the web most people aren't viewing full screen 1080p yet. More and more are, but most are still watching downscaled videos in small players - and you are at the mercy of the encoders at Vimeo/Youtube's end.


The IQ quality difference between line skipping HD versus full raster HD versus 4K plus shouldn't be looked at as a question of how much better your lowest quality deliverable is (web video), but the combined quality of ALL your possible deliverables.

You want to make money out of shooting 5K - then export stills and grade them up and show to your clients you can supply great looking stills. Find the best frames from shoots and export them to build your own stock stills library as well as video. Take creative ownership of every frame you shoot and 5K+ resolution has an avenue to continue paying for itself far into the future that the other cameras simply can't match.

But if you DON'T take creative ownership of every frame you shoot, then you can't possibly get 10x returns to match the increased price. But if you are always shooting, and always appraising your footage, and always looking for that magic shot or magic bit of video or magic production where everything comes together and you can sell it today, and again tomorrow, and again in 3 or 6 or 10 years time then RED is the only game in town at the moment I think... and I think if you AREN'T interested in doing that, then going to the trouble of OWNING camera gear in the Epic price range rather than renting it on an as needed basis becomes a bit of a waste (unless you are owning it to rent as part of a package, which is a completely different business proposition.)

Own every frame and 5K will pay back in spades. If you don't want to take ownership over every frame and instead are happy to deliver what the clients think is good enough, then shoot with the camera that they put in your hands at whatever resolution they tell you to.

If you treat RED footage as if it was as expensive as film was to shoot and process, but you somehow had lucked into a free supply and a mate at a lab that would run it through on the sly, then you'll will get the advantage of 5K, both in terms of your immediate projects (which will look better when downrezzed, but not 10x better) and in the value of your library of work over the next 10-20 years (which could, conceivably, become 10 times as valuable due to being in a more repurpose-able format than moire 1080p.

It's up to you to work out your way of turning your tools into income - the advantage 5K resolution offers is obvious, how YOU are going to monetize it is really a question you have to answer for yourself.
 
You should also consider FX needs. If you are shooting chroma key stuff, then having extra edge resolution helps.

however on a side note- just shoot whatever resolution you are comfortable with. Someone that really knows their way around a camera can get amazing results at 2k, but having the versatility of 5k (and HDRx, slow-mo, raw, etc. etc.) can save your butt if you are new.

Bottom line is shoot 5k because hard drives are cheap and you don't always know exactly what you are going to need from a given shot in post.
 
Lee Kelly said:
Yeah thanks for the reply guys,
I completely understand the dof and field of view at different sensor crop resolutions my question was meant to specifically ask if i shoot 5k and export to pro res, edit my clip and then export from fcp and compressor for vimeo, will my shots look better (crisp, clean, clear etc) compared to shooting the exact same scene at the exact same time with the exact same lens field of view etc in 4,3 or 2k.
Ive seen some pretty nice clean results from 5dmk2 files on the web so hoping red 5k will look 10x the price better ha ha
Click to expand...

Well again you are cropping the sensor when you shoot 2k.... so the result will differ. subsampling to .7 is a good with cmos sensors, subsuming even more is... even better. So you would only shoot 2k, 3k,4k if a different dof was wanted, you have limited storage, or you want to shoot a higher frame rate then the camera can handle in 5k... more pixels is a better image.

It's that simple..

You 2k shots will never be looking as good as a 5k shot.

the 5dMK2 is subsampling from a 21megapixel frame... the problem is that it's doing it partly with the "nearest" logarithm so you got huge issues when looking at the picture in HD res...

RED let you have bigger data rates to the SSD and it let you subsample with algorithms that demands great data power so your resulting image will take some time to bake but the wait will be worth while.
 
That reel was really nice. I have a long way to go ha ha
I was surprised how well the night footage and darker areas of other shots held up as far as grain goes. I shot some 800iso test clips recently just to see what i can get away with and found it very noisy. Whats the trick????
For the most part my work is shot in outdoor decent lighting conditions. The aim is to make that stuff pop. I know its 99% about the person shooting the scene and the camera is only a small part of the process but im hoping my epic footage will look better (crisper, brighter, saturated, detailed etc) than 5d or 7d does.
Forgetting the field of view, DOF etc and concentrating purely on resolution, if your final destination is a vimeo clip (like the one back up there) is shooting 5k at 4:1 going to be noticeable vs shooting 2k? (forget its crop factor and dof) lets say we could match it perfectly with lighting, focal length etc once its all compressed and uploaded will it look better if the original file was 5k 4:1.
 
yes, shooting 2k is zooming in on center of the full 5k image. This causes your image to have more apparent noise since it's being magnified from 5k sensor (noise is larger).

If your intended delivery is strictly web and never ever, not even in the future higher than 1080p, then shoot 5K at 10:1 or 12:1 compression or shoot 4KHD which is great for scaling easily to 1080p. This will eat up less space and still produce great images. Keep 2K for slow mo only. Otherwise there's no point in buying a RED if your only going to shoot 2K.
 
Lee Kelly said:
Forgetting the field of view, DOF etc and concentrating purely on resolution, if your final destination is a vimeo clip (like the one back up there) is shooting 5k at 4:1 going to be noticeable vs shooting 2k? (forget its crop factor and dof) lets say we could match it perfectly with lighting, focal length etc once its all compressed and uploaded will it look better if the original file was 5k 4:1.
Click to expand...

You'll absolutely notice a difference (2K and 5K footage look like they came from different cameras, in a sense), but that doesn't mean 5K is the answer. Personally, I would test from 3K and up under different conditions and look for diminishing returns in the results (in your final display format).
 
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