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Senheiser MKH416 mounted on top of Scarlet?

Omar N

Omar N

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Hello everybody,

Long time ghost user of these forums, glad to finally make my self known :)

I had a question about mounting a shotgun mic (particularly MKH416) on top of a Scarlet. Please forgive me if this has been answered before. I did a search only found older threads with people guessing and overall not any clear answers. Now that the Epics are steadily streaming out into the public with a very similar build design to the Scarlet, I am wondering if some people can clarify shotgun mic mounting options to the top of these cameras. Particularly, I am using a Rode SM3 shock mount:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398316-REG/Rode_SM3_SM3_On_Camera_Shockmount.html

but I am not sure if this will work on a Scarlet, and I am willing to spend money on an upgrade piece. The obvious answer for best results would be to do double system sound, but as I usually do work with a one (sometimes two) man crew, I have gotten great results with mounting mics on top of my previous cameras.

Any thoughts or ideas? Will the SM3 be a viable companion to this camera?

Thank you everybody. Your help is greatly appreciated.
~Omar
 
Have you done it with the RED One, if yes it will work for you.
The Epic has about the same amount of fan noise as the RED ONE (not based on scientific testing...). I suppose Scarlet could have the same fan noise level as the Epic.

I had one scene shot with the Epic, where I was at 50 cm from the actor with the camera, where the sound guy had problem with the fan noise (35% was minimal fan value setting). It was a very quiet night scene.

Pat
 
Consider you are using a $1k mic.

While the SM3 from Rode works in some situations, I would get something a bit stronger and more versatile.

The K-Tek GPS is world of difference. I own both.

The K-Tek won't require constantly "re-aiming" heavier mics with regular operating, and you can whip-pan all you want without worry that your $1k mic might fly off.
 
I just recently got a MKH416P48 Mic w/ a free Rode blimp from performance audio that has a 3/4" mount below the handle. Regardless of the Red's fan or any other camera's noise, I would have thought the MKH416 being very directional, plus with the use of the blimp and dead cat, any noise from the camera won't be picked up..... I have yet to test this though since I just sold my 5dmkII for the upcoming Scarlet.....
 
Wow Roberto that K-Tek looks great! I have been meaning to upgrade my mic holder for a while but I know so little about audio and even less about audio accessories that I kept putting it off. However I do know K-tek to be an awesome brand and that particular model looks great.

Gabriel, funny story, I just sold my 5D rig for the upcoming Scarlet too!

But the question still remains, will these mic holders be able to attach to the Scarlet? Patrick, unfortunately I have never touched or used a Red Camera in my life, so I have absolutely no experience with the Red One. I have been on plenty of big budget commercial sets where Red One's have been used, but the sound has always been double system so I never got a chance to peek and see mic mounting options. Although it is interesting you bring up the fan noise. I hadn't even thought about that at all. I am hoping the directionality of the MKH416 will render that a non issue!

I suppose if anything I could just mount the microphone directly to my Red Rock shoulder rig, but it would still be nice none the less to mount it to the top of the camera.
 
I see no reason why this wouldn't work and I would think RED would have put in a no-fan option for just that reason. Just need a screw mount whether from RED or Zacuto and stick on a mic holder and you're good to go. I do agree that the 416 may be a little much for an on-camera mic, might want to use something smaller. I use the 416 on my Zoom H4N for double system all the time and I can feel the weight of the mic every time I pick it up to put it in the blimp, that could be a little uncomfortable if you're hand holding it.
 
Hi Omar. A bit off topic but the 416 is a tad long and beefy to put on such a small camera. What about something like a Sanken CS-1 which is much smaller and lighter instead?
 
I record double sound. However, when required I have mounted the MKH 416 on top of my DSLR (Canon EOS 1D Mark IV). Since the MKH 416 requires 48V phantom power, I plug a mixer at the bottom of the camera. So it is MKH 416->mixer->camera. This works best when I am very close to two macaques fighting or charging elephant etc.

When I am using the MKH 416 with a rycote zeppelin, there is no way I can mount it on camera. So have to handhold with the pistol grip.
 
Thank you everybody for the responses! I guess the big thing here is the possible fan noise interruption which if gets too noisy, I may just skip out on purchasing the MKH416 all together in favor of hiring a sound guy on a per-job basis. Moreover, thank you for the advice on the CS-1 mic Rob. At this point I am still favoring the MKH416 only because it is a mic which I have used for years and come to love, and additionally, the main purpose of the mic I buy will be for interviews with the majority of work being done with a boom pole.
 
Omar N said:
Hello everybody,

Long time ghost user of these forums, glad to finally make my self known :)

I had a question about mounting a shotgun mic (particularly MKH416) on top of a Scarlet. Please forgive me if this has been answered before. I did a search only found older threads with people guessing and overall not any clear answers. Now that the Epics are steadily streaming out into the public with a very similar build design to the Scarlet, I am wondering if some people can clarify shotgun mic mounting options to the top of these cameras. Particularly, I am using a Rode SM3 shock mount:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/398316-REG/Rode_SM3_SM3_On_Camera_Shockmount.html

but I am not sure if this will work on a Scarlet, and I am willing to spend money on an upgrade piece. The obvious answer for best results would be to do double system sound, but as I usually do work with a one (sometimes two) man crew, I have gotten great results with mounting mics on top of my previous cameras.

Any thoughts or ideas? Will the SM3 be a viable companion to this camera?

Thank you everybody. Your help is greatly appreciated.
~Omar
Click to expand...

Im not so sure this is a good move.

If you use any on camera mic I cant think of any situation that it will be in the best position for any location sound. Its not suited tight or wide and add the camera noise and camera man noise ie breathing etc.

The only use you can put it to is guide track.

Sorry to be negative about it.
 
Dave Blackham said:
Im not so sure this is a good move.

If you use any on camera mic I cant think of any situation that it will be in the best position for any location sound. Its not suited tight or wide and add the camera noise and camera man noise ie breathing etc.

The only use you can put it to is guide track.

Sorry to be negative about it.
Click to expand...

I don't think it is negative at all, just being realistic. The 35% minimum fan speed will make compromise your sound in many cases, especially with an on-camera mic. The interference tube of the shotgun was not designed to deal with noise sources right adjacent to the mic, the directionality of mic will not null such a close sound source. When looking at sound crews, do you ever see them position a shotgun microphone horizontally? It is almost always pointed mostly straight down towards the ground and the talent's mouth. The main reason is due to the rear 180 pickup pattern of any shotgun. This rear lobe is generally pointed toward the sky, where presumably there is no sound pollution or reflections to deal with. In an interior or course, the rear 180 would pick up ceiling reflections, but then again shotguns are generally not recommended for interiors anyways. So when placing a shotgun on camera, it is like putting a microphone pointing towards the talent but also... due to the rear 180, a microphone pointed right at the operator's head... better be quiet and not a heavy breather. For clean dialogue, you'll want to get within a couple of feet of the talent, if not several inches, this is simply not possible with camera mount mics. If it is an option, hire sound crew. Camera mics are great for scratch tracks and for dailies. If you can hire crew and have some money left over for a cheaper mic that will get the job done, go for it.
 
Thank you Tom for the detailed response! There is some great info being passed around here. I suppose I should be a little more specific about what I am trying to do. For projects that require pristine audio, I will most certainly have a 2nd guy with me to handle the mic on a boom pole (whilst still being plugged into the camera). My main concern for wanting the mic attached to the camera would be more or less just for an above average scratch track, and more importantly, as a means of having the mic out and ready so that if I am in the middle of a shoot and suddenly need sound, retrieving the mic is as simple as sliding it off the camera and throwing it on a boom pole, as opposed to having to go back to my equipment bag and fishing it out of it's case.

I must admit though, I did previously think that I might be OK with the audio just having a mic mounted to the top, but after reading your guy's input, starting to reallh doubt it.
 
I normally don't reply to many posts. But this one I really think is worth the effort. I am a sound guy. What I mean by that is sound is extremely important when it comes to any film or video. You can have a pretty bad picture, out of focus, a little under or over exposed and get away with it. And with a little manipulation in the editing bay you can call it artistic. But when it comes to audio you can't get away with any type of distortion or any really low audio. Because once it is on "tape", I know everything is digital medium now-a-days, you can't just simply undo it once you are in the editing bay.

So only if there is no other way of capturing your audio except to place the mic on the camera then by all means do that as a last resort. But if you have the money or an extra body, preferably a good boom op, use that person to record your audio. Your audience and your producer(s) will thank you for doing so in the end. And I don't want to sound like I am preaching. So excuse me if I came off a little strong.
 
The best thing you can do for any sound recording situation is put the mic in the best place to start with it will yield far more benefit that spending thousands on a good mic. Even a Schoeps or MKH60 will sound poor if in the wrong place same as a shot will look bad bad if camera placement its poor. If you do need an on camera mic I think It aim for an MKH50 or perhaps an older MKH435 which are hypercardiod. you will pay about 250 USD for a 435 if you can find one. They must be 30 years old now but still about. T powered only I think. A mic with good polar response is worth spending the time getting though, you can always put it on a pole and lead and let a recordist operate it.

You have whats arguably the best camera in the world so best capture some good audio too.
 
Now, sound guys should think about building a blimp for the Epic wich will not overheat the beast. It is totally possible.

Don't understand why they don't do it, I'm sure the camera departement won't do it.

Pat
 
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