Sell RPP 18 to use Duclos 11-16 instead?

[AndreasOberg]

Hello all
I just recieved a mail from Duclos that my preordered 11-16 lens is almost ready.
However I'm not so financially strong at the moment since I just had a major jungle film project.
One option I'm considering is to sell the Red Prime 18 to get the Duclos instead. Maybe to get the Red Prime back again later in 6-12 month or so. The red primes are cool, but I am struggling a bit with their weight.

What do you guys think, would this make sense or should I cancel the Duclos order and get it later. I do like the idea of getting more extreme wide angle and a zoom for it.

Thoughts?
/Andreas

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Andreas,

RPP 18mm its a great prime, heavy but very well built producing a great image.

11-16 Duclos, nice zoom, but absolutely not even close to the built quality of the RPP's, and image quality even so good, not even close to that of the RPP's, but flexible as a zoom ,and super small and very lightweight.


Again this is a case of Low quality Zoom vs. high quality Prime.


I would not do it, unless I am certain that I do need the super wide of the 11-16, were I would shoot it it mostly at 11 to max 14, if I was to shoot it mostly at 16 I would not do it.

 

[AndreasOberg]

Thanks for the thoughts Ketch!
Is the 11 and 18 measured in the same format? The 11 isn't multiplied with 1.6x or so? I know it's meant to be on an APS-C censor.

Best
/Andreas

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Thanks for the thoughts Ketch!
Is the 11 and 18 measured in the same format? The 11 isn't multiplied with 1.6x or so? I know it's meant to be on an APS-C censor.

Best
/Andreas

It us multiplied by 1.3 on EPIC/Scarlet Y R1, 1.2 on Dragon, since it is a Still full frame rehoused glass, the 11-16 is actually presenting you with the FPOV of a 14.3-20.8.

Also the 11-16 is a slower lens, not by much but it can surely make a difference on night shots, or interior low light.

Each has its use, and they are so very different one from the other, at the end I sold mine as I had only used once in Dubai and that was all.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Every lens has a focal length value measured in mm... a 18mm is a bit 'longer' than a 16mm, always...

as long as you compare them on the same sensor size / camera...
what can change is the perceptual field of view of a lens when you use different sensor sizes... an 18mm on your RED (APS sized more or less) might be compared to a 28mm on traditional 24x36mm ('full frame') photography... hence the terms "crop factor", "35mm equivalent" etc

But FWIW on any given camera, a 16mm will always be wider than a 18mm

Mikael

Is the 11 and 18 measured in the same format? The 11 isn't multiplied with 1.6x or so? I know it's meant to be on an APS-C censor.

 

[Christopher Mills]

Quality aside, the 11-16 has great utility, esp if you are shooting in real cars, real interiors, etc.

It is a great run and gun lens.

the 18mm RPP is a lens I like, and have often used. It has a different purpose for me than the 11-16. That is for a wide on a decent sized set or a landscape.


the 2.8 apperture of the duclos mod 11-16 has not been a problem to me, as I typically need the fov it provides in tight spaces that I am able to light.

It is a complete rehousing by a very cine lens experienced company, and has a place on many shoots.

in my market, I could get recurring cross rentals on the 11-16

I could not get nearly as many rentals on a fixed focal 18mm, no matter the quality

 

[Daniel Stilling]

Is the 11 and 18 measured in the same format? The 11 isn't multiplied with 1.6x or so? I know it's meant to be on an APS-C censor.

Best
/Andreas

The saying goes: A 50 is a 50 is a 50.
No matter what size sensor, or negative for that matter, the relationship of your subject and foreground will always remain the same with a certain focal length.
A 50 RPP will look the same (not talking about optical quality here) as a 50 CP.2. And the RPP is super 35 and CP.2 is Full frame. the only difference is the image circle, but not the focal length.
Same thing, if you have a 16mm camera, you can use a full frame, super 35 or 16mm lens. The focal length on a 50 will be the same in all 3.
now, the difference is how much of the image circle is required by a sensor.
Imagine this:
you are standing in a room, looking through a window to the outside. Your distance to the window is your focal length. the size of the window is your format (sensor size).
So imagine you are standing 10 meters away from the window. You have a tree really close to it, and a landscape far away. your window is quite large (Full frame). Now imagine the window smaller (Super 35mm). You see less of the picture, but the relationship between you, the tree and the rest of the landscape is the same. Now to be able to see the same amount of landscape, you have to get closer to the window. But what happens then? your distance to the window diminished (focal length) and the relationship between the elements in your frame changed as well. all of that had to change to keep the same amount of landscape in the picture.
Moral of the story is that you can't really say that a 50mm on a 5D is the same as a 25 on a RED. they have more differences than common traits.

 

[Matt Uhry]

I really like it that the 11-16 is so small... Many times I've put it in my jacket pocked and jumped into a boat / aircraft / vehicle and gotten great wide angle shots with it. I've collected a ridiculous amount of lenses and the compact ones are the ones I use much more often.

Both lenses are excellent at what they do, but it's somewhat different things. I would look to have a cohesive set - if you're planning on adding a wide angle zoom like the Optimo Rouge or Canons or Fujis Get the 11-16, it will extend your wides, and has plenty of coverage for Dragon from 12.5 to 16mm. Needless to say it's significantly wider than the 18mm, and much more very useful in cramped spaces.

If you're building out a set of RPP's stick with the 18mm and get the rest. I'm not sure what else you've got but it's a bit oddball to have it on it's own. Also I'd be a bit worried about coverage of the 18mm for Dragon... not sure if it's been blessed yet or not.

Anyway - just my thoughts on it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[AndreasOberg]

Just to summarize what I have
Red Prime 18, 35, 300mm. I'm realy missing some lenses in the middle say 85 or 100
Canon 24-105 f4 IS, 35 f1.4, 85 f1.2, 70-200 f4 IS, 100 2.8 IS macro

So with the Canon I of course have much more range and I can also zoom. Plus I have stabilizers AND they are lighter.
Right now I shot documentary in the jungle and I switched after a while to only using Canons. I loved the 300m, fantastic, but the problem was that I sometimes needed hand held and the red primes were too heavy and didn't have stabilizers and it's a pain to switch the canon/cinema mount.

Now I bought the primes mostly to do cinema production but right now it seems like I'm doing more documentaries or commercial where flexibility is more important that absolute quality.

I'm leaning against keeping the Red Prime and maybe get the 11-16 later. If I would have picked just one right now it would probably have been the 11-16 but it's always a hassle and some money lost in selling used lenses. I really do love super wide angle lenses I must say.

Best wishes,
Andreas

 

[AndreasOberg]

On a second note I begun considering just getting the canon mount Tokina 11-16. It cost almost nothing so I can keep the red prime. It seems like I will use more light weight setups for now so having a canon mount will almost be better for now.
So does the Tokina 11-16 just fit on the Epic? I heard it covers 5k full frame which sounds promising.

Best!
/Andreas

 

[Matt Uhry]

Yeah - canon mount version will suit your needs. It's light and does not cost much. FYI you can use PL version of Duclos 11-16 on a Canon mount with an adapter... useful in a pinch

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Christopher Mills]

It fits the epic canon mount.. I don't know if the stock one covers 5k.. it does cover 4K