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Second Hand Epic M

Mark Andersen

Mark Andersen

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Suppose there was a second hand Epic M available, and suppose I bought it. Would Red get heartburn over this? Do they discourage their Epic M customers form selling their cameras? And if I bought one, could I get a "change of owner" certification from Red, would they support it? I am a "Red user" and will have my own stage 2 Epic, but still, how would this all go down? PS, I am not talking about any stolen cameras here, and I don't think I should say who may or may not be selling, nor would I want to start a bidding war for a camera that I am not sure yet will be available, or when it will be.
 
I would contact RED to go over the details of changing camera ownership.

If it was sold at a premium, I would not be surprised if people weren't thrilled.
 
Best bet is to contact RED directly.

Below is the original message saying how they felt about traders trying to make a few bucks off of the Tattoo program. Not sure if it applies to EPIC-M.

OctoberPost.jpg
 
It's very clear with that Tattoo documentation, and I would expect Epic-M to be the same -and it comes with a 2 year warranty. Chances are said warranty will be voided if sold.

So it's dealer's choice, but I certainly won't do it.

And imagine the firmware upgrades we'll be seeing in the next several months...they will be unavailable to any of these theoretical new owners.
 
While I'm guessing Red is a little softer on secondary markets for Ms compared with the original tattoo concept, we are still talking about cameras that Jim is personally signing off on the delivery of. It just seems to be in poor taste.
 
Yeah if I was to be approached to Broker an Epic M this early in the game I would not do it!!

It just blows mi mind that some on is already selling an Epic M, granted I know several production house for which I have brokered over 25 Red One packages,
and the reason is that they buy gear instead of renting, for each given production and then sale off the gear to recoup capital, what I mean is that if the gear
costs them more then 50% the purchase value to rent, they buy make the project and then sale a smart choice to me.

So could be possible that some one is doing the same with Epic M.
 
Jeremy Torrie said:
And imagine the firmware upgrades we'll be seeing in the next several months...they will be unavailable to any of these theoretical new owners.
Click to expand...

I was also under the impression that EPIC-M owners were sort of the new version of the Tattoo program, and to report back to RED to assist firmware development, etc.

Partnering on an M camera is distinctly different than just "flipping" a camera for profit, but that is the world sometimes. And it just may be a little hard to take for the Stage 2 people out there to see M's being on the market while they wait.

Whether it's allowed by RED will have to be answered by RED, but to me it seems opportunistic and not in the spirit of the M program.
 
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While I think owning an M camera is something that raises the status of an owner among his or her peers, I do not think selling it should be disallowed (in re: withholding firmware etc.) by RED. I also do not think the current M cameras are being sold for feedback purposes, as were the first ones. I think RED probably has more feedback information than they can sort through.

Sales are probably becoming a pre-set line of customers with the cash.

When one pays the kind of premium the M cameras have over the X versions, the buyer should be able to do with it as he or she pleases. IMO.
 
Elsie N said:
While I think owning an M camera is something that raises the status of an owner among his or her peers, I do not think selling it should be disallowed (in re: withholding firmware etc.) by RED. I also do not think the current M cameras are being sold for feedback purposes, as were the first ones. I think RED probably has more feedback information than they can sort through.

Sales are probably becoming a pre-set line of customers with the cash.

When one pays the kind of premium the M cameras have over the X versions, the buyer should be able to do with it as he or she pleases. IMO.
Click to expand...

Your point would be more valid if anyone who had the money could get an Epic-M right now ... which is NOT the case. There is still a waiting list, and (I believe) it depends on various factors -- including Red buying history, but also body of work and how it will showcase the Epic or build up the brand. The latter criteria is how extremely talented shooters or famous filmmakers like Cameron who were not previous Red owners are also eligible.

As such, and because M owners are still being carefully selected, it would be taking advantage to use one's status to buy one -- and then sell it for a premium. If there is some some of hardship situation and the money is desperately needed, I'm sure that can be worked out directly with Red.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Your point would be more valid if anyone who had the money could get an Epic-M right now ... which is NOT the case. There is still a waiting list, and (I believe) it depends on various factors -- including Red buying history, but also body of work and how it will showcase the Epic or build up the brand. The latter criteria is how extremely talented shooters or famous filmmakers like Cameron who were not previous Red owners are also eligible.

As such, and because M owners are still being carefully selected, it would be taking advantage to use one's status to buy one -- and then sell it for a premium. If there is some some of hardship situation and the money is desperately needed, I'm sure that can be worked out directly with Red.
Click to expand...
Your points are taken, and I believe there is a preferred customer list at present.

I do think RED is picking owners who will use the cameras correctly at this time. But Jim has said he will probably sell the M cameras as long as there is a demand for them. That means that at some time the customers will not be chosen, but will choose. If RED requires a customer to obey certain protocols, there should be a written agreement spelling that out.
 
Umm....i've had a boat load of offers for my two M's....but have a few jobs to finish before i would consider that and of course I'll likely sell one or both as soon as my X's are available OR, will i sell my X's?? Anyway, there are some m's out there now.

.....would gladly line up a buyer for my M after i finish a job next month and then my X is on the way----at least in theory anyway.
 
Johnny Friday said:
Umm....i've had a boat load of offers for my two M's....but have a few jobs to finish before i would consider that and of course I'll likely sell one or both as soon as my X's are available OR, will i sell my X's?? Anyway, there are some m's out there now.

.....would gladly line up a buyer for my M after i finish a job next month and then my X is on the way----at least in theory anyway.
Click to expand...
Two M s? Wow!

What you propose is just what I'm talking about. The M is a collector's item for some, but people who work their equipment should have the flexibility to utilize it in a way that best suits their business.
 
Elsie N said:
Your points are taken, and I believe there is a preferred customer list at present.

I do think RED is picking owners who will use the cameras correctly at this time. But Jim has said he will probably sell the M cameras as long as there is a demand for them. That means that at some time the customers will not be chosen, but will choose. If RED requires a customer to obey certain protocols, there should be a written agreement spelling that out.
Click to expand...

Exactly Elsie. We are on two sides of the same coin. I think once backlog is fulfilled and Red is selling M's to anyone with the desire and $$$, then what you propose makes sense and I don't think reselling will be an issue.
 
AnthonyFlores said:
Exactly Elsie. We are on two sides of the same coin. I think once backlog is fulfilled and Red is selling M's to anyone with the desire and $$$, then what you propose makes sense and I don't think reselling will be an issue.
Click to expand...
Anthony,

We agree, but with one small difference. Where do you draw the line between M customers who are treated differently? Do you say "customers who purchased before camera number 500 cannot sell, but those who bought after number 500 can sell with no fetters? I don't know. I'm just saying that whatever the policy is, it would have to apply to all M customers alike, again, IMO.
 
Mark Andersen said:
Suppose there was a second hand Epic M available, and suppose I bought it. Would Red get heartburn over this? Do they discourage their Epic M customers form selling their cameras? And if I bought one, could I get a "change of owner" certification from Red, would they support it? I am a "Red user" and will have my own stage 2 Epic, but still, how would this all go down? PS, I am not talking about any stolen cameras here, and I don't think I should say who may or may not be selling, nor would I want to start a bidding war for a camera that I am not sure yet will be available, or when it will be.
Click to expand...

Were I in your position, I'd make a quiet call to Red rather than asking this question in an open forum full of people who are insanely jealous of every Epic-M that is shipped. Just sayin'
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Yeah if I was to be approached to Broker an Epic M this early in the game I would not do it!!

It just blows mi mind that some on is already selling an Epic M, granted I know several production house for which I have brokered over 25 Red One packages,
and the reason is that they buy gear instead of renting, for each given production and then sale off the gear to recoup capital, what I mean is that if the gear
costs them more then 50% the purchase value to rent, they buy make the project and then sale a smart choice to me.

So could be possible that some one is doing the same with Epic M.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the most realistic reason to sell. I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with someone selling something they bought. It makes perfect sense to buy Epic M, shoot a film, and then sell the camera to offset budget cost. Besides, this time next year they will want to shoot with the newest sensor anyways! :)
-Ryan
 
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