Sdk Wishlist

[Jeff Coatney]

What needs to be addressed by third party developers with regard to Red? What do you want or need a solution for? What types of products would you expect from the release of the SDK?

Let's also tell Apple, Adobe and Avid and others what is needed from them.

 

[Martin Weiss]

I would love to have a Quicktime plugin that reads R3D files. On non-intel.

 

[Mikael Lubtchansky]

Would also love such a QT plug-in for our fleet of G5s

All very good and solid machines, quad procs are really fast, soon to be in forced retirement due to the lack of r3d codec on PPC

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

I just want what Cineform has already designed thank you very much

Jay

 

[Thor Wixom]

What Jay said.

-Thor

 

[David Wilson]

What Jay and Thor said.

David

 

[caseyhayward]

Can someone briefly explain what is preferable about cineform? Is it a PC option that is better than current workflows/codecs?

 

[Dave Neathery]

Can someone briefly explain what is preferable about cineform? Is it a PC option that is better than current workflows/codecs?[/QUOTE

With cineform, you process your .r3d file(s) through redcine to convert them to their format. Now you can play those files in your post software Premier Pro, After Effects, etc. at whatever resolution you wish. It becomes your new master. What I think they are saying, is we want to have sdk based software that does this directly from the .r3d file so that we can save the considerable time required for the conversion.

At the moment, I typically shoot slightly over 1 hour on each camera at 29.97fps 16:9 and then convert this to 1920 X 1080 so that I can see and edit it.
That step in redcine takes about 1 week, so I can only shoot about 1 hour per week. My output is to Blu-ray and DVD otherwise, I would have much longer processing times before being able to start editing. So you can see that this would represent a HUGE inprovement for PC users who cannot afford Scratch.

But then, Red has always envisioned a workflow where the files can be played directly as soon as they are transfered to the computer. So, this is what I have been lookiing forward to for for more than 2 years now.

Also, once this is working, I think the criticisms will start to dissapear. Unfortunately, the critics will be silenced more slowly than the present workflow.

 

[Dave Neathery]

Must have sound

Must have sound

Having sound with the picture is critically important.

 

[Jason Rivera]

curious

curious

doesn't Cineform compress the footage, whereas native R3d support would mean you could make non-destructive decisions through the entire (most of) the editing process?

I don't think I would mind the Cineform workflow based on what I've read, but I would prefer everything be raw, non-destructive...one set of files, etc. That way you could use the same R3d file sitting in one directory somewhere for all projects in whatever application and only have the project files for those applications store the nondestructive settings, like filters, transitions etc. So one working set of file for an unlimited number of projects and versions. Lots of space saved. me happy!

 

[Steve Freebairn]

I'd like native Adobe support and a quicktime codec for PC. I know people are going to say that native isn't what Adobe does and that native just takes too much power, but I wouldn't mind 1k resolutions for realtime playback and then full res when the CTI is parked. Seems like the Ae, Pr, and En combo would enable a really smooth path to blu-ray.

 

[Thor Wixom]

doesn't Cineform compress the footage, whereas native R3d support would mean you could make non-destructive decisions through the entire (most of) the editing process?

I don't think I would mind the Cineform workflow based on what I've read, but I would prefer everything be raw, non-destructive...one set of files, etc. That way you could use the same R3d file sitting in one directory somewhere for all projects in whatever application and only have the project files for those applications store the nondestructive settings, like filters, transitions etc. So one working set of file for an unlimited number of projects and versions. Lots of space saved. me happy!

After speaking with David Newman and David Taylor at NAB, my understanding is that their converter tool was reading the RAW values, and simply reassigning the numbers to the appropriate "place" inside the Cineform wrapper. Hence, it wasn't actually recompressing the image. Also, the resulting Cineform file was still RAW, so you would get all the benefits.

I know it's not exactly that cut and dried, but as I understand it, the sum effect is essentially the same.

I'm not a software engineer, so I can't comment further on the technical aspect.

If you want to see it in action, go to freshdv.com, and look for the 3ware NAB video. Watch it all the way through, past the commercial in the middle.

To me, the real value is in the potential of the workflow. I had my hands on it at NAB, and it was promising.

Now, I can't wait for the SDK so I can use Cineform in the real world.

-Thor

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

At the moment, I typically shoot slightly over 1 hour on each camera at 29.97fps 16:9 and then convert this to 1920 X 1080 so that I can see and edit it.
That step in redcine takes about 1 week, so I can only shoot about 1 hour per week.

Time to replace that Pentium III then.

Kidding, no offense. It takes less than a day for that on my system so that seems a bit odd.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Funny... Not too many wishes in here for the SDK, but rather people are pointing out what they want for their workflows.

Here's my SDK wishlist:

* Full documented access to the R3D file format.

* Linkable libraries and code samples for various debayer and image processing / filtering algorithms. Linkable modules should be precompiled and for Windows, OSX and Linux. Code available to compile and build for other platforms or to modify and build on.

* Camera control library and interface so we can talk to / control the RED One via the USB port or interface to the SD card slot, etc..

 

[Jeff Coatney]

Do any of you guys know if Red plans to roll-out the SDK in stages, giving some of their strategic partners a head-start of a week or two? If it's been mentioned on a thread, I didn't see it.

 

[Jay A. Kelley]

Funny... Not too many wishes in here for the SDK, but rather people are pointing out what they want for their workflows.

Here's my SDK wishlist:

* Full documented access to the R3D file format.

* Linkable libraries and code samples for various debayer and image processing / filtering algorithms. Linkable modules should be precompiled and for Windows, OSX and Linux. Code available to compile and build for other platforms or to modify and build on.

* Camera control library and interface so we can talk to / control the RED One via the USB port or interface to the SD card slot, etc..

Jeff,

Speaking for myself, I really don't know enough about SDKs to know what to ask for.

I would hope people like Cineform would be making requests, since they are the ones who need certain things.

Oh well

Jay

 

[Jason Rivera]

SDK! Oh yea...SDK!

SDK! Oh yea...SDK!

Funny... Not too many wishes in here for the SDK, but rather people are pointing out what they want for their workflows.

Here's my SDK wishlist:

* Full documented access to the R3D file format.

* Linkable libraries and code samples for various debayer and image processing / filtering algorithms. Linkable modules should be precompiled and for Windows, OSX and Linux. Code available to compile and build for other platforms or to modify and build on.

* Camera control library and interface so we can talk to / control the RED One via the USB port or interface to the SD card slot, etc..

Haha, you're right! I guess this thread requires more thought from a programming point of view.

With that being said, yea, give me code samples and a list of members and methods I can access in all of the linkable libraries for windows, baby!

I wouldn't mind taking a whack at some code. :nerd:

 

[Mark B.]

Funny... Not too many wishes in here for the SDK, but rather people are pointing out what they want for their workflows.

I was thinking the same thing.

Here's my SDK wishlist:

* Full documented access to the R3D file format.

* Linkable libraries and code samples for various debayer and image processing / filtering algorithms. Linkable modules should be precompiled and for Windows, OSX and Linux. Code available to compile and build for other platforms or to modify and build on.

* Camera control library and interface so we can talk to / control the RED One via the USB port or interface to the SD card slot, etc..

Here's what I'd like to get:
-Documentation to the R3D file format.
-R3D interface API (via Unmanaged DLL's (for Linux/Win/Mac) and also Managed .Net controls)
-Camera Automation Control Libraries (Unmanaged and also .Net controls)
-Documentation and samples for all libraries, including a thorough index of error code numbers.

Within the functionality of the R3D API, it would be nice to have some of the following:
-Extract frame (RAW pre-bayer / RAW post-bayer / Low-Res Preview)
-Insert frame (RAW pre-bayer / RAW post-bayer)
-File/Frame/Etc Meta-Data (read/write)
-Cropping/Aspect Ratio/Frame Rate/Etc. (read/write)
-Convert pre-bayer to post-bayer (using Red algorithms)
-Convert post-bayer to pre-bayer (using Red algorithms)
-Extract Audio WAV [per channel]
-Insert Audio WAV [per channel] (with option to either Blend or Fully Replace existing audio on the channel)

 

[Jason Rivera]

After speaking with David Newman and David Taylor at NAB, my understanding is that their converter tool was reading the RAW values, and simply reassigning the numbers to the appropriate "place" inside the Cineform wrapper. Hence, it wasn't actually recompressing the image. Also, the resulting Cineform file was still RAW, so you would get all the benefits.

I know it's not exactly that cut and dried, but as I understand it, the sum effect is essentially the same.

I'm not a software engineer, so I can't comment further on the technical aspect.

If you want to see it in action, go to freshdv.com, and look for the 3ware NAB video. Watch it all the way through, past the commercial in the middle.

To me, the real value is in the potential of the workflow. I had my hands on it at NAB, and it was promising.

Now, I can't wait for the SDK so I can use Cineform in the real world.

-Thor

Glad you bring that up as it reiterates what I'm reading about it on their web site and other posts. If it's really just a new raw wrapper (CF Raw) and not compressing, then I'm sold and I would have to agree with your response, especially if it means having real-time performance in Premiere. Supposedly even the compressed formats now act like the non-destructive raw version to some degree.

For one extra conversion step compared to what I described previously, I'd take it even for the price. But since I don't do this as my profession I wouldn't mind waiting a bit if Adobe and others would do the same thing for free as a plug-ins or something and possibly lose the conversion step and gain drive space. But you are right, it appears to be essentially the same thing as I wanted for a work flow.

If I had "clients" in this business, I'd have to be nuts not to go this route for a windows work flow in the meantime.