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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Schedule and Machined EPICs...

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Jannard said:
There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever to this package over a production EPIC... except timing. That is why I am surprised at the response. I guess some people can make back their money in 2 months. That would explain it. Or the fact that you have something that is next to impossible to own. I want one. But I didn't think there are others like me.

No marketing effort here. We'll save that for production EPICs... which will turn the industry upside down, inside out and backwards.

Jim
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Gotcha Jim. Thanks for the reply. One of the things I think that's effing remarkable is that this response practically proves you could be charging a lot more for production Epics, yet you're being so reasonable and in many ways generous.

In addition to the killer camera and specs, this is sooooo the kind of thing that drew me to Red -- you guys actually give a shit about your customers. What a concept.

Can't wait to hold the Epic -- whether it's my own Stage 3 production model, or Ketch's Epic-M ... wink, wink
 
Michael Hastings said:
2:25 here.


I woke up in the middle of the night from my post-turkey stupor, check the thread I started and saw there were 80 posts, half a dozen from Jim, and thread closed. (no problem, makes sense for those announcements to be moved over here.)

Before I go back to sleep, just wanted to thank you for clarifying the option and the expected schedule.

Also wanted to thank Jay, Johnny and a few others for supporting me - not so much my opinions - but just affirming to the group that I'm a RED early adopter/supporter and that if I say something that is uncomfortable I mean well and I try to be thoughtful, reasonable and respectful.

Please remember that my post was made before we had any real information and I was trying to bring up concerns both for myself and the group as a whole.

Jim, I made a comment in there about fairness that may have been a bit strong. I couldn't help but feel there was something unfair about it to the stage 2 people. But I can't really articulate it, so it is probably more emotional than rational. Consider that in over 25 years of buying multiple video cameras every year I've NEVER been emotional about a camera. You should probably take it as a compliment that I'm emotional about yours.

As far as this deal, I can see that there are too many good things to be learned not to do it. And as I said in my post, I'm considering it myself.

I have a CNC/machine shop and I'm pretty good with my hands - what's my price on a "Heathkit"-style Redkit version? :-) :smilewinkgrin:

PS: but I need the pre-soldered version - my soldering sucks!
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Michael... I have always liked you. Sometimes the process is painful for a few seconds. You forced me to think about what we were going to do. Good job. Now we know and people can decide what it means for them. Just know that in the beginning, the middle and the end... we have our customers in mind.

Jim
 
we should build these machined, hand built EPIC bodies
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Dennis Guskov said:
forgive me, but that sounds like an oxymoron to me. could someone please explain to me what is meant by this as I am confused? thanks
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Getting a few hand built Epics in the hands of users will help the Red team better prepare for mass production (through the experience of fulfilling those orders), plus satisfy a "little" upfront, intense demand for something now. Oh, and they'll make a little extra money to boot.
 
Dennis Guskov said:
forgive me, but that sounds like an oxymoron to me. could someone please explain to me what is meant by this as I am confused? thanks
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The bodies will be machined and the boards will be hand assembled and tested one by one... the old fashioned way.

Jim
 
Dan Blanchett said:
Getting a few hand built Epics in the hands of users will help the Red team better prepare for mass production (through the experience of fulfilling those orders), plus satisfy a "little" upfront, intense demand for something now.
Click to expand...

There is no question that this process is a good thing to prepare for mass production. I would have done it anyway... even if I had to eat the cameras myself.

Jim
 
Ketch, if you get one ... I promise I'll drive through hours of intense 91 traffic and bring a gang of the hottest models to your place for a shoot! Deal?
 
Why this choice?

Why this choice?

Häakon said:
Ouch, that's extremely disappointing news. :( It is great as always that you're giving the customer options, but it was communicated at "Red Day" this year that all of the Epics would be machined; that was one of the quality differences between the Epic and Scarlet bodies that the extra $20k got you. Oh well... I know, I know... "things change... count on it!" :rolleyes:
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Well, a machined body would not justify a huge difference in price, would it?!

Not that I know anything about manufacturing costs, but it seems that Apple mass production is machined (Macbook Unibody ...) and they would not do it if their were a cheaper option for them. For small series production as EPIC, machining should actually be the cheaper option.

Don't get it.
 
Dennis Guskov said:
forgive me, but that sounds like an oxymoron to me. could someone please explain to me what is meant by this as I am confused? thanks
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There are two ways to make a camera body: carve it out of a block of aluminum or cast it in a steel mold. The molds are not ready yet, so the option exists to carve the camera bodies out of a billet of aluminum... one-at-a-time.

The industrial term for a mold is called tooling. The mold is cut on a CNC machine (kinda like a 5 axis router) out of tool steel that is hard enough and stable enough to have molten liquid aluminum poured into it tens of thousands of times in its lifespan.

It takes anywhere from 30 to 45 days to cut an industrial mold and build it into a production tool. -- They are articulated to aid in the release of the very hot, formed part.

If you have a Solidworks™ file of the body, you can feed instructions to the CNC machine ( hence: Machined )and cut the camera body out of a billet of metal in a matter of hours. These CNC machines (CNC= computer numerical control ) are expensive and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The downside is you can only get about 1.25 camera bodies out of a single machine in a 24 hour period.

Molded bodies can be made in a single injection-molding machine at the rate of several hundred a day.

While the machined part is stronger, the strength is relative to the mission. A cast camera body will stand up to anything you can throw at it. The machined body is overly strong.
 
how much will the 128GB SSD cost and the batteries and charge be when production has started?
How much is the titanium PL mount?

It would be great to get an updated price list of all the modules, media and batteries for EPIC so we can all run the numbers
 
Pierre T. said:
Well, a machined body would not justify a huge difference in price, would it?!

Not that I know anything about manufacturing costs, but it seems that Apple mass production is machined (Macbook Unibody ...) and they would not do it if their were a cheaper option for them. For small series production as EPIC, machining should actually be the cheaper option.

Don't get it.
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You don't? Go out and get a quote for 50 of something complicated to be machined.

Jim
 
I am sure April is the excellent date for real production! We need to expect only 4 month! How may items of Epic are you expecting to production from April? 200, 300, 500 a month? It is the very important quastion!
 
Jannard said:
Michael... I have always liked you. Sometimes the process is painful for a few seconds. You forced me to think about what we were going to do. Good job. Now we know and people can decide what it means for them. Just know that in the beginning, the middle and the end... we have our customers in mind.

Jim
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jim. That's all I wanted to do. One thing that's always been clear is that you do care and are truly passionate about making the best camera you possibly can.

Exciting days ahead.

Now I should go back to bed and snuggle the wife - don't forget what Gibby said. :-)
 
Pierre T. said:
Well, a machined body would not justify a huge difference in price, would it?!

Not that I know anything about manufacturing costs, but it seems that Apple mass production is machined (Macbook Unibody ...) and they would not do it if their were a cheaper option for them. For small series production as EPIC, machining should actually be the cheaper option.

Don't get it.
Click to expand...

The Apple unibody chassis probably accounts for half the cost to make the entire computer. Apple built a special assembly line to get those costs down as low as they can go.
 
Jannard said:
There is absolutely no advantage whatsoever to this package over a production EPIC... except timing. That is why I am surprised at the response. I guess some people can make back their money in 2 months. That would explain it. Or the fact that you have something that is next to impossible to own. I want one. But I didn't think there are others like me.

No marketing effort here. We'll save that for production EPICs... which will turn the industry upside down, inside out and backwards.

Jim
Click to expand...

Btw, I know these cameras will practically sell themselves -- but please let me know if you need any help with this. I can't think of a better product to get behind ....
 
The good news is that if you think the price doesn't make sense... you don't have to buy one. It amazes me that these same questions aren't asked of the companies that make a 1080P camera for $70K- $250K.

Jim
 
In low quantities, some people opt for a Rapid-Tooling positive, since they are impregnated with aluminum suspended in a two-part epoxy resin. Depends on the application and complexity of the part. Rapid prototyping tech still requires hand finishing.
 
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