scarlett competitors in near future

[Jeff Kilgroe]

9 months later yes, after countless threads, posts and people asking Jim and the team... like a child waiting for a christmas present... "what is #21, what is #21, what is #21".

Actually #21 was admitted (by Jarred) to be a goof-up on the day the feature list was announced. Unfortunately in the middle of all the insanity, that seemed to have got missed and people kept asking. So at first it was a running joke, then people really expected something. Good thing RED came up with something to put on the list! Hahaha

 

[Stuart English]

#21

#21

21 also happens to be exactly half of 42 ..

 

[Jim Retar]

Actually #21 was admitted (by Jarred) to be a goof-up on the day the feature list was announced. Unfortunately in the middle of all the insanity, that seemed to have got missed and people kept asking. So at first it was a running joke, then people really expected something. Good thing RED came up with something to put on the list! Hahaha

Ahh cool, fair enough. Yea, they have probably added 5 extra features worthy by now

I wish, really wish.. that the recon area didn't allow member posts. So much good info is lost in all the "wow", "cool", "you rock Jim" etc etc

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

21 also happens to be exactly half of 42 ..

Molybdenum?

I wish, really wish.. that the recon area didn't allow member posts. So much good info is lost in all the "wow", "cool", "you rock Jim" etc etc

Tried that... People complained. Even if there was a separate discussion thread, people complained. Everyone wants to post right in the thread as the news is trickling out. So us mods figured we would go back through the thread and delete all the noise. Once again, more people complained. Then everyone whines about free speech and censorship and whatnot... Can't please everyone. The community doesn't want the noise, or so they say, but yet the community keeps generating the noise and complains if we try to clean it up. And yes, many people who complain about the noise also generate a fair amount of it themselves. :violin:

 

[Oliver Moereels]

Tried that... People complained. Even if there was a separate discussion thread, people complained. Everyone wants to post right in the thread as the news is trickling out. So us mods figured we would go back through the thread and delete all the noise. Once again, more people complained. Then everyone whines about free speech and censorship and whatnot... Can't please everyone. The community doesn't want the noise, or so they say, but yet the community keeps generating the noise and complains if we try to clean it up. And yes, many people who complain about the noise also generate a fair amount of it themselves. :violin:

Actually, that's what I like best about this place. Everybody can freely express their opinion and/or admiration all over the forum. The bit of chaos that comes along with that freedom is a small price to pay. Think about it. A 24/7 costumer hotline (sort of), and the product isn't even out yet. Apart from R1 and accessories, naturally.
A lot of companies don't offer such a direct dialog even after you've bought something.

Besides, at least it keeps us reading while we await the big day. :sifone:

 

[Jim Retar]

Tried that... People complained. Even if there was a separate discussion thread, people complained. Everyone wants to post right in the thread as the news is trickling out. So us mods figured we would go back through the thread and delete all the noise. Once again, more people complained. Then everyone whines about free speech and censorship and whatnot... Can't please everyone.

Maybe RED should have a news section too then, that picks the main info from every announcement (regarding products).... it is pretty hard to sell someone in control of your budget on a piece of equipment when they ask where they can find info on X item and I have to say... I think it was on page 54 of this thread, in this sub section of this forum.

I'm sure a fun forum and a more business like news feed would help sales.

 

[Eric Lagerlof]

Jeff, 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything. Check out Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy". A very fun read. If I remember correctly, by the time they figured out that the answer was 42, they forgot exactly what the question was

 

[Oliver Moereels]

I'm sure a fun forum and a more business like news feed would help sales.

I could be wrong, but I think demand will be much higher than supply for a loooong time. Even if they sold them up in a tree and only exactly at midnight.
R1 turned a lot of heads. The day they announce the cameras are out the internet buzz will be massive. So I don't think sales will need much help.
Besides, the RED.com website has a lot of info displayed in a more orderly fashion.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Maybe RED should have a news section too then, that picks the main info from every announcement (regarding products).... it is pretty hard to sell someone in control of your budget on a piece of equipment when they ask where they can find info on X item and I have to say... I think it was on page 54 of this thread, in this sub section of this forum.

Isn't that what the Crucial Ordnance forum and RED.COM are for? And yes, they do post most all the official announcements on RED.COM. And we copy the pertinent info to the Crucial Ordnance section. We just don't tend to copy the subsequent discussions. People have to dig a bit for that.

Jeff, 42 is the answer to life, the universe and everything. Check out Douglas Adams' "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy". A very fun read. If I remember correctly, by the time they figured out that the answer was 42, they forgot exactly what the question was

I know... I was just trying to steer the discussion another direction. 42 was over-used as an internet meme a few years back. Or perhaps this explains the whole REDCODE 42 thing... Or rather why RED chose 42 as the number. :sifone:

 

[Steve Das]

Maybe RED should have a news section too then, that picks the main info from every announcement (regarding products).... it is pretty hard to sell someone in control of your budget on a piece of equipment when they ask where they can find info on X item and I have to say... I think it was on page 54 of this thread, in this sub section of this forum...

Well all the products Red sells are listed in the Red store..
and it has info. on tech specs. and workflows right there. So that's where
I'd direct someone who's in control of your budget if they want info.
Most likely producers would just get confused by user posts since
what producers do and shooters do are night and day.

As far as a news section on products..not bad idea..but face it
often there are long periods of time before new products are announced.
And then an even longer time before those products make it over to the
Red store. If you removed all the Red noise from this site there wouldn't
be much alot of the time. For people who don't want to deal
with the Red noise or the delays..just stick to the Red store.

 

[Jim Retar]

maybe just block posts that only contain the word "cool/wow/amazing" then. That would cut the noise down 50% ;-)

Just a shame to loose these important nuggets of info checking through every page of a new recon post.

 

[Michael Smith]

too far

too far

Actually #21 was admitted (by Jarred) to be a goof-up on the day the feature list was announced. Unfortunately in the middle of all the insanity, that seemed to have got missed and people kept asking. So at first it was a running joke, then people really expected something. Good thing RED came up with something to put on the list! Hahaha

You know I must have missed that. I've been following RED and Recon for years. It's almost impossible to keep up with the real info on this forum because there's so much.. well.. pandering to wade through. But if so then that's something. ever consider doing a weekly email of recon posts?

Overall though it's not just about feature 21. There is a community of people here who all want this thing to happen. We all want these cameras - not that everyone here can really afford it or will ever really buy one. I think most people here ARE rooting for them. I am. Still the atmosphere that red set's up is a bit oppressive..

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." & "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude." .. oh and mix those with the policy on real names. I think it just sets up an environment where it's not ok to express true feelings. Look there's even a 'banned' smilie :banned:

Someone said a page or so ago that my characterization was a bit personal. It's true. Probably not fair on my part. After all it was an off the cuff rant written in the middle of the night based on frustration (of wanting a 3k camera already - don't care who makes it). I apologize if my comments were too personal and presumptuous about the intentions of people that I don't really know. But my apology is because it was inappropriate, not because I'm worried that if I don't they'll ban me from buying a camera.

So.. do I have a bad attitude? I don't think I do. I think I have an appropriate attitude based on 3 years of sticking up for red to all my production friends and still no real idea when the scarlet will be for sale.

Yes, Michael Smith is my real name.

 

[David Rasberry]

It has been just less than two years, October 2008, since the whole modular camera program concept was first announced. The original "3k for $3k" Scarlet 2/3" concept was pitched at NAB in April the same year. It hasn't been as long as some people seem to think.
Red probably thought they could turn this project in a year when they first started, but the reality is there is no predictable schedule for true innovation. The whole Scarlet/Epic MX generation program has evolved far beyond the original concept and in the process has suffered normal developmental issues as well as unforeseeable problems due to the world wide economic recession. Personally I think they are progressing quite well, even if it is frustrating not to have the product in hand yet.

 

[Farhad Towfiq]

The original mindless announcement of "3k for $3k" Scarlet indeed helped RED by discouraging competitors. Several companies and individuals were ready to invest in integrating the Sumix camera head into an easy to use solution. They were discouraged.

Farhad Towfiq,
President
Sumix Corporation

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I hate to say it but it sounds like it was pretty easy to discourage potential competitors if all it took was a PR announcement about a future concept. :blink:

 

[Thomas Church]

What puzzles me is that for a long, long time RED has been pretty much ignoring Scarlet 100%.

I was hopeful for a Q1 2011 release, but everyday that passes I'm figuring that the camera might even slip into 2012.

And to be honest, it's sort of tiring having these announcements like the R90 and such when we clearly want for them to give us some info - any info - about the cameras.

What I'm realistically expecting at the moment is that the 5D mkiii is a real improvement and can actually shoot acceptable video. Hopefully Canon will release it early next year.

 

[Michael Smith]

It has been just less than two years, October 2008, since the whole modular camera program concept was first announced. The original "3k for $3k" Scarlet 2/3" concept was pitched at NAB in April the same year. It hasn't been as long as some people seem to think.
Red probably thought they could turn this project in a year when they first started, but the reality is there is no predictable schedule for true innovation. The whole Scarlet/Epic MX generation program has evolved far beyond the original concept and in the process has suffered normal developmental issues as well as unforeseeable problems due to the world wide economic recession. Personally I think they are progressing quite well, even if it is frustrating not to have the product in hand yet.

You might be right. It was November 13 of 2008 when I blogged about the new stuff. My blog post is an interesting read to see my perspective back then.

http://www.tomorrowland.com/2008/11/13/red-announcement-holy-crap-this-is-great/

I thought the original promise .. er .. suggestion of 3k for 3k was NAB the previous year. But maybe it was NAB of 2008 when we saw the machined body. Then Nov 13th was when they completely changed the design to give us this new (and admittedly better) design. It's hard to remember. Either way it's either 2.5 years or 3.5 years and we have no idea when it will be a reality (meaning product I can buy). I was encouraged to see a real photo of the camera last month.

 

[David Rasberry]

...I was encouraged to see a real photo of the camera last month.

Not to mention a little footage FROM the camera.

 

[Danny Lingan]

What puzzles me is that for a long, long time RED has been pretty much ignoring Scarlet 100%.

Scarlets have been delayed for various reasons for a long time, but that statement is inaccurate. The Scarlet program is said to be dependent on progress on the Epic program and various improvements in Epic and M-X have directly improved Scarlet. We've known for quite some time that the first Epic would come out before the Scarlet 8x (I don't like to say 'fixed' as it sounds like something we're encouraged to do to cats and dogs and makes me uncomfortable.)


Many threads discuss these improvements, although they tend to be scattered about. FAQ updates and other stickies would communicate this better, so I understand how you might think the Scarlet program has been ignored.

 

[Brian Petrie]

What puzzles me is that for a long, long time RED has been pretty much ignoring Scarlet 100%.

I was hopeful for a Q1 2011 release, but everyday that passes I'm figuring that the camera might even slip into 2012.

And to be honest, it's sort of tiring having these announcements like the R90 and such when we clearly want for them to give us some info - any info - about the cameras.

What I'm realistically expecting at the moment is that the 5D mkiii is a real improvement and can actually shoot acceptable video. Hopefully Canon will release it early next year.

Red has stated countless time that Scarlet is trailing Epic by a few months. Jim said this is because they are related so closely and Scarlet gets most of it's architecture directly from Epic. Therefore, when Epic gets released you can be pretty certain Scarlet will follow sooner than latter because in my opinion if you can make an Epic you shouldn't have a problem making a Scarlet which is essentially a scaled down Epic. Not to mention, even after stating that they have embarrassingly blew delivery estimates, encountered a bug and talked about manufacturing problems Jim said they didn't want to bother with delivery dates yet STILL stated he thought Scarlet would be out by years end.