Scarlet...

[Jannard]

I would still like to know if the HDRx will increase the frame rates for the the S35 when not shooting HDRx™™?

Scarlet S35 has board and ASIC limitations as compared to EPIC... otherwise it would be the same price. That includes frame rates and data rates.

Jim

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

Scarlet S35 has board and ASIC limitations as compared to EPIC... otherwise it would be the same price. That includes frame rates and data rates.

Jim

OK, thank you - very understandable.

 

[Paul Leeming]

As general advice to people thinking of going into a co-op deal to get cameras, make sure you know who you are allying yourself with and get the deal in writing so no one can alter the arrangement or run off with your clients/camera. Friendship doesn't mean anything when it comes to matters of money, as many people (myself included) have found out through the ages. Don't get burned.

HTH

Paul

 

[Franck De Togni]

I don't really understand people talking like it's a life end if they don't get their Scarlet/epic soon.
Yes it is frustraaating but one can do anything.
I just sold all my camcorders( sony FX1, A1, Z1 and hvx200) to get more money for Scarlet and accessories except the hmc151 that I'll use till I can have a Scarlet. Maybe also buy a d7000 for certain conditions. So I'm not cutting my throat if I don't get My Scarlet. I have still a bit of gear. I have some work. So I'll be ready When Jim says It's ok and prepared to ship.
Jim, Anyway, everybody couldn' afford your cameras. If you focus on professionals, Epic and Scarlet will stay unaffordable jewels. Or Indie filmmakers with huge wallets would also buy. The rest of the world will watch and cry.
You do what you have to considering all elements. And that's it !

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

I would love to see a scarlet with the orginal specs and price be released simultaneosly with the current scarlet, then see how many of the older version sell. I think very few would go for the 3k and many would save a little extra $ for ALL the extra features.

I mean cmon guys... YOUR'VE HAD 2 YEARS TO SAVE THE EXTRA 2K!!!!

Really? Other than having HDRx and (arguably) being modular, in what ways that you are absolutely certain of is the current camera better? Only Jim and Red know.

 

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

This is a silly post. Sorry but buying the latest and greatest camera has nothing to do with being a filmmaker and won't make you a better storyteller.

As with any camera purchase, its not about pride or emotion but need. You need to weigh all the pros and cons of that camera system and see if it's the right tool for the job.

I don't need the "best" camera on market but one that offers the best bang for the buck. Lets say Canon released the Mark III with no aliasing or moire and shoots in a raw format or close to it for less than $2,500. Would Scarlet be worth the added price?

Let's say that Arri released a camera that was 6K RAW for $1500. Or Sony had a new camera that was 4K RAW at 300 fps for $4K. Or that...

Jim

:rofl:

 

[neil hartop]

Amen! Someone that is talking sense.

Don't count on getting a Scarlet before 2012. An opinion from an realist.

Peace

I just bought a 5d today. I so tired of waiting for a scarlet, I just cant be bothered anymore. And the original Idea of having a scarlet for like £3500 is so far gone now these cameras have returned to the unreachable market for a alot of us. I just want to say thats such a shame. You can slag off the 7d and 5d all you want but the price difference between these cameras and ex3, red one and now unfortunately scarlet makes it a sensible choice for alot of us.

I really do feel Jim you have had a missed opportunity here and by the time you have released this camera...which by the way with all the extras needed to have a decent shooting model will cost what? 7,8, 9 thousand pounds! Well alot of us making indie small budget films/students dont have it and are learning on canon cameras. I know alot of you who post here can afford it but now the camera is as unattainable as a red one mx for a market that could of originally bought scarlet instead of 5d/7d (how many people bought these cameras to film with?!)

For every one rich American posting here there is a 1000 film makers in Europe shooting on 5d who are all realising there dreams (and mine) of buying a Scarlet has been handed back those that can spend 10 grand on a whim.

And besides...when you actually have gotten round to selling this camera I will have bought a canon 5d mark iii. Im sure of that.

Major success in technology but big disappointment in price/affordability and deliver.

Duke nukem Indeed.

 

[Alex Coelho]

Let's say that Arri released a camera that was 6K RAW for $1500. Or Sony had a new camera that was 4K RAW at 300 fps for $4K. Or that...

Jim

Or Red releasing a 3k Raw for 3k.. wait.

It may be little wishful thinking that Canon would release such a product at that price point but we can all agree we should see improvements in the next generations of these cameras.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

OMG... Some of the comments in this thread are just crazy.

Where did people ever get the idea that 3K for $3K was a complete package that they could pull out of the shipping box and shoot a film with? LOL

Sorry, please excuse my insensitivity... But the 3K for $3K ship sailed 2 years ago -- 2 years ago next month, to be exact, when the DSMC system was announced and Scarlet lost its integrated flip-out LCD and diverged into two models - the interchangeable "brain" and the 8X fixed lens "brain"

Even before the $1000 price bump for HDRx™, the 2/3" Scarlet equipped with minimal appropriate accessories and a few appropriate prime lenses along with recording media would be a $10K to $12K package.

I'm curious, but what do people realistically think they can get an AF100 kit for? It's $5K for just the camera body -- I think that includes a crap lens, but don't recall. Funny..

Even at the new price, Scarlet will sell faster than RED could ever manufacture them. Of that, I am certain. The only thing I see wrong with Scarlet is that we can't buy one yet.

 

[Jörgen Persson]

Where did people ever get the idea that 3K for $3K was a complete package that they could pull out of the shipping box and shoot a film with? LOL

I think most of us got it from Red since they were the guys selling us the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM&feature=player_embedded

The prototype was a fixed lens camera with a CF slot and the mantra was 3k for $3k. Pretty much a camera you pull out of the box and shoot a film with.

The 5D was announced just a couple of months after NAB 2008 and now it's being used for professional shoots everywhere.
The vDSLR changed the market and Red had to adapt.

But there's no need to be patronizing.

 

[Jesper Sichlau]

It will be nice when the cameras are out on the market and the forum will become a happy place again :hurray:

 

[neil hartop]

Jeff I know where your coming from, Im a huge red fan, Ive shot on red but I just watched the video of Ted Shilowitz posted by jorgen where he talks about 3k for $3k.


People should be rightly annoyed by further price bumps for more and more features. These cameras will be amazing but almost as amazing as the price tag! which is now becoming ridiculous in terms of what was originaly promised. Its also meant to be the great 'dslr beater'. Dont make me laugh. Yes it will be in terms of specs...but in the hands of the few that can now afford it as its closer to the price bracket of the original red one now.

Where do people get the idea of 3k for 3k?

From 'RED' Jeff thats where. I suggest you watch the video...its one of many....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM&feature=player_embedded

 

[Alex Coelho]

OMG... Some of the comments in this thread are just crazy.

Where did people ever get the idea that 3K for $3K was a complete package that they could pull out of the shipping box and shoot a film with? LOL

Sorry, please excuse my insensitivity...

Even before the $1000 price bump for HDRx™™, the 2/3" Scarlet equipped with minimal appropriate accessories and a few appropriate prime lenses along with recording media would be a $10K to $12K package.

I'm curious, but what do people realistically think they can get an AF100 kit for? It's $5K for just the camera body -- I think that includes a crap lens, but don't recall. Funny..

Even at the new price, Scarlet will sell faster than RED could ever manufacture them. Of that, I am certain. The only thing I see wrong with Scarlet is that we can't buy one yet.

I was referring to the fix lens Scarlet, which was hyped by Red as a camera you could shoot with out of the box for 3k. There were many people that doubted Red's ability to produce such a camera but many believed the marketing hype. Now we get Red is a professional company with professional prices.

In terms of the AF100, at least we can feel confident when its coming out. Its not a perfect camera by any means but neither will the Scarlet if it ever comes out. This does not mean that I won't consider buying a Scarlet if it meets my price/performance threshold.

 

[Stephen Matthews]

Red has admitted they made some mistakes, they didn't know who they were, well they do now.

As I have said many times that camera was a concept camera (best way to look at it). The reason scarlet is what it is, is due to the input from users online asking for features and Jim's new idea for the modular system (a much better Idea than scarlet 1.0). It changed with red and the market.

3k for 3k is gone, will never be here, maybe another camera just not that one and not at this time from red.

So this video of Ted two years ago at the beginning of the scarlet program mean nothing, especially ted saying it will shoot out of the box for 3k, they hadn't even built it yet how could he know (I think).

Honestly if you are this upset why even come here to tell red, go buy your 5D and 7D and go find a forum for them, or at least be polite if you are going to visit and keep your irrational complaints to yourself.

Scarlet will now and before cost much more to rig it up, and as Jeff said ever since the modular system you are looking at upwards of 10-12k, you could build a package with less but you would be restricted. The af100 does not come with a lens (unless I missed that) and to have a servo zoom on it would be quite difficult and expensive, plus nano flash it will cost more if properly kitted up. Heck even DSRL's can add up to far more than their purchase price if you are going to kit it out, yes it's considerably cheaper than the former two but you still end up spending a couple grand to still have very crippled video you have to work around.

I feel sorry for people who think their dreams are dead, but the reality is if this is the case your dreams were dead (how you see it not me) a long time ago and you didn't even realize it.

keep on filming, fighting, and loving

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I think most of us got it from Red since they were the guys selling us the idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM&feature=player_embedded

Sure, I know that... I saw that prototype for myself at NAB '08. Never mind that most of the prototype shots in that youtube video had anywhere from $1.5K to $3K+ of accessories bolted onto the camera. There's a lot of hype surrounding Scarlet, always has been. It was a different experience if you were actually there at NAB '08 to really see for yourself and that video is not truly representative of what was presented at the RED tent.

I really don't understand where all the complaints are coming from now. That was two years ago, three NAB's ago, many iterations of Scarlet have come and gone, including a couple price adjustments. RED hasn't uttered the 3K for $3K mantra in well over 2 years.

The days of pull the camera out of the box and shoot with it for $3K disappeared over 18 months ago, most people didn't take notice then. In fact, the prospects of that never truly existed even back in early '08. $3K bought you a camera body with a built in lens, battery and a charger. Complete shootable kits were more, even back then. Scarlet went from an "under $3K" $2999 fixed lens camera to a modular fixed lens camera for $3750 (or a modular interchangeable lens camera for $2700) a long, long time ago. Yes, you could buy that $3750 brain and shoot with it. But not very well. A workable kit was announced for $4750. So I guess that's now $5750.

Even back in the days of "3K for $3K", that isn't what you were really getting even if the camera really met all the hype back then. I'm sorry people got that impression. I don't know anyone who was actually at NAB and saw the prototype, talked to anyone at RED, maybe even got to touch the prototype and still walked away with that the impression that $3K would buy them a complete out of the box kit to shoot with. It was $3K for a 3K fixed-lens camera body/brain. That's it. Disagree with me all you want, I've said my bit and won't pursue it any further...

 

[Alex Coelho]

Red has admitted they made some mistakes, they didn't know who they were, well they do now.

As I have said many times that camera was a concept camera (best way to look at it). The reason scarlet is what it is, is due to the input from users online asking for features and Jim's new idea for the modular system (a much better Idea than scarlet 1.0). It changed with red and the market.

3k for 3k is gone, will never be here, maybe another camera just not that one and not at this time from red.

So this video of Ted two years ago at the beginning of the scarlet program mean nothing, especially ted saying it will shoot out of the box for 3k, they hadn't even built it yet how could he know (I think).

Honestly if you are this upset why even come here to tell red, go buy your 5D and 7D and go find a forum for them, or at least be polite if you are going to visit and keep your irrational complaints to yourself.

Scarlet will now and before cost much more to rig it up, and as Jeff said ever since the modular system you are looking at upwards of 10-12k, you could build a package with less but you would be restricted. The af100 does not come with a lens (unless I missed that) and to have a servo zoom on it would be quite difficult and expensive, plus nano flash it will cost more if properly kitted up. Heck even DSRL's can add up to far more than their purchase price if you are going to kit it out, yes it's considerably cheaper than the former two but you still end up spending a couple grand to still have very crippled video you have to work around.

I feel sorry for people who think their dreams are dead, but the reality is if this is the case your dreams were dead (how you see it not me) a long time ago and you didn't even realize it.

keep on filming, fighting, and loving

Your missing the point completely and I don't think its worth debating anymore. I think it's pretty clear that Scarlet is long overdue and Red over promised.

Also, no ones dreams died because of the price increases. I think there are some (not me) that fell for the marketing machine that is Red.

Lastly, I'm here because I want Red to bring the Scarlet to market sooner rather than later. Even at the increased price, it will have a feature set like no other in its class, which will force the other camera companies to speed up development on products that can compete with the Scarlet. It's a win win if your a filmmaker these days.

 

[neil hartop]

Red has admitted they made some mistakes, they didn't know who they were, well they do now.

As I have said many times that camera was a concept camera (best way to look at it). The reason scarlet is what it is, is due to the input from users online asking for features and Jim's new idea for the modular system (a much better Idea than scarlet 1.0). It changed with red and the market.

3k for 3k is gone, will never be here, maybe another camera just not that one and not at this time from red.

So this video of Ted two years ago at the beginning of the scarlet program mean nothing, especially ted saying it will shoot out of the box for 3k, they hadn't even built it yet how could he know (I think).

Honestly if you are this upset why even come here to tell red, go buy your 5D and 7D and go find a forum for them, or at least be polite if you are going to visit and keep your irrational complaints to yourself.

Scarlet will now and before cost much more to rig it up, and as Jeff said ever since the modular system you are looking at upwards of 10-12k, you could build a package with less but you would be restricted. The af100 does not come with a lens (unless I missed that) and to have a servo zoom on it would be quite difficult and expensive, plus nano flash it will cost more if properly kitted up. Heck even DSRL's can add up to far more than their purchase price if you are going to kit it out, yes it's considerably cheaper than the former two but you still end up spending a couple grand to still have very crippled video you have to work around.

I feel sorry for people who think their dreams are dead, but the reality is if this is the case your dreams were dead (how you see it not me) a long time ago and you didn't even realize it.

keep on filming, fighting, and loving

Sorry Stephen Ive never heard such rubbish in my life,

everyone has a right to comment on this thread including everyone that is disappointed by the red program, and even more so by people such as me who have been saving for a year for scarlet. Their emotion including mine is out of love and disappointment for the scarlet. Asking people to keep their opinions to themselves then having another go at canon cameras is just cheap and non democratic.

your Feeling sorry for people who say their dream is dead?! Your now being melodramatic and rather silly, the dream maybe dead for alot of us of owning a scarlet but not in film making, and you really should give credit to canon which has allowed alot of us to continue film making while red has priced is all out. I hate the elitist attitude the Redc forum has become, thats a reflection on the people that can afford these cameras and their contempt for those who cannot that shoot with something else.

its a sad reflection on the people and the lack of spirit in film making,

please post all you 5d/7d jabs all you want now...

 

[Stephen Matthews]

sorry you have a right, but make sense and logical arguments otherwise you are just going in circles throwing a tantrum while no one listens.

If you are going to play play nice otherwise find somewhere else to play that was what I meant.

I'm just saying some of you need to grow up and act more mature I can take all the differing opinions in the world as long as they are presented in a respectful manner, and when they enter a discussion with another person they listen to opposing views rather than shutting them out. I'm just no seeing much of that, irrational arguments of well they missed their market, or let me down, they have clearly stated what their market is now I know it's hard but bitching about it won't change things going out and working is the best thing any of us can do to make sure we can afford these products.

sorry if I upset you but this is the reality, scarlet costs at least 3,750k for a body, 6k for a kit and lens, red caters to professionals, they also believe people should shoot with what they have now, and that DSLR's are fine for certain situations and individuals.


I don't think Red needs anyone to tell them how to run their business and what market they should go after or missed, so cumming in here and waving your newly purchased camera in their face is immature
(may not have meat it that way but it came off like that to me), they have told people to buy what they can if you aren't happy with these policies of red I say leave as what do you feel you will accomplish by bashing them on their site? I have camera systems that bother me for certain reasons but I'm not on their forums complaining about products I can't afford and probably won't buy.

honestly I don't know you or anyone on here, none of you have to listen to me, all I am saying is to be polite discuss in a respectful manner otherwise all you are is a troll and should not be here in the first place, and if you aren't a troll or just overly angry then why remain here.

I don't mean to offend, have a good day and stay passionate.

edit: I have a 7D and a GH1 I like them for what they are stills cams that can shoot motion if you know what you are doing, there is a lot that can go wrong and a fair amount of limitations, never said there was anything wrong with them for the price, they are a great tool to get into the industry which can also be used on the professional level for crash cam's and such.

p.s. when I talked of peoples dreams being dead, I meant scarlet dreams, how on earth could I state a persons career dreams are dead without knowing a thing about them.

 

[JPSendall]

I was waiting for Scarlet. I bought something else in the meantime and I'm working with it (won't mention what I bought but I think you can guess). As soon as Scarlet is out I'm in, I was hoping for the FF Scarlet. We'll see. In the meantime stop dreaming and start working. Get it when it's in available. All this discussion of promises and so on just wastes your time, whether true or not.

 

[David Rasberry]

Jeff I know where your coming from, Im a huge red fan, Ive shot on red but I just watched the video of Ted Shilowitz posted by jorgen where he talks about 3k for $3k.


People should be rightly annoyed by further price bumps for more and more features. These cameras will be amazing but almost as amazing as the price tag! which is now becoming ridiculous in terms of what was originaly promised. Its also meant to be the great 'dslr beater'. Dont make me laugh. Yes it will be in terms of specs...but in the hands of the few that can now afford it as its closer to the price bracket of the original red one now.

Where do people get the idea of 3k for 3k?

From 'RED' Jeff thats where. I suggest you watch the video...its one of many....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoHTjx8siM&feature=player_embedded

That may be where the concept of Scarlet started out, but in the process of development it has become obvious that Scarlet can't meet it's targets for performance, build quality, essential professional features, and reliability at such a low price. Nor by all evidence to date can anyone else. Not Canon, not Sony, not Panasonic.