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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet...

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Jeff Kilgroe said:
Sure, I know that... I saw that prototype for myself at NAB '08. Never mind that most of the prototype shots in that youtube video had anywhere from $1.5K to $3K+ of accessories bolted onto the camera. There's a lot of hype surrounding Scarlet, always has been. It was a different experience if you were actually there at NAB '08 to really see for yourself and that video is not truly representative of what was presented at the RED tent.

I really don't understand where all the complaints are coming from now. That was two years ago, two NAB's ago, many iterations of Scarlet have come and gone, including a couple price adjustments. RED hasn't uttered the 3K for $3K mantra in well over 2 years.

The days of pull the camera out of the box and shoot with it for $3K disappeared over 18 months ago, most people didn't take notice then. In fact, the prospects of that never truly existed even back in early '08. $3K bought you a camera body with a built in lens, battery and a charger. Complete shootable kits were more, even back then. Scarlet went from an "under $3K" $2999 fixed lens camera to a modular fixed lens camera for $3750 (or a modular interchangeable lens camera for $2700) a long, long time ago. Yes, you could buy that $3750 brain and shoot with it. But not very well. A workable kit was announced for $4750. So I guess that's now $5750.

Even back in the days of "3K for $3K", that isn't what you were really getting even if the camera really met all the hype back then. I'm sorry people got that impression. I don't know anyone who was actually at NAB and saw the prototype, talked to anyone at RED, maybe even got to touch the prototype and still walked away with that the impression that $3K would buy them a complete out of the box kit to shoot with. It was $3K for a 3K fixed-lens camera body/brain. That's it. Disagree with me all you want, I've said my bit and won't pursue it any further...
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Wow Jeff...I simple I was wrong would of sufficed, wasnt you claiming you didnt know where everyone was getting this 3k for $3k came from?

I simple I was wrong would of sufficed.
 
Even 3K Scarlet S35 like "a small dog" will cost $15.000 (means also to get ProRes module extra in that price)

with HDRx™ and RED Magic Motion is going to be a real Alexa "fat duck" killer!!!

Just count:

Four times (4X) less expensive than basic Alexa.

Four times (4X) smaller and lighter than Alexa.

Has more DR (because has HDRx™) 18 stops DR.

Has RED Magic Motion included.

Can record 3K REDCODE RAW on SSD and ProRes 422/4444 in HD on SSD module at the same time.

What do you want more???!!!

And it's still cheaper than RED ONE MX!!!!
 
Stephen Matthews said:
sorry you have a right, but make sense and logical arguments otherwise you are just going in circles throwing a tantrum while no one listens.

If you are going to play play nice otherwise find somewhere else to play that was what I meant.

I'm just saying some of you need to grow up and act more mature I can take all the differing opinions in the world as long as they are presented in a respectful manner, and when they enter a discussion with another person they listen to opposing views rather than shutting them out. I'm just no seeing much of that, irrational arguments of well they missed their market, or let me down, they have clearly stated what their market is now I know it's hard but bitching about it won't change things going out and working is the best thing any of us can do to make sure we can afford these products.

sorry if I upset you but this is the reality, scarlet costs at least 3,750k for a body, 6k for a kit and lens, red caters to professionals, they also believe people should shoot with what they have now, and that DSLR's are fine for certain situations and individuals.


I don't think Red needs anyone to tell them how to run their business and what market they should go after or missed, so cumming in here and waving your newly purchased camera in their face is immature
(may not have meat it that way but it came off like that to me), they have told people to buy what they can if you aren't happy with these policies of red I say leave as what do you feel you will accomplish by bashing them on their site? I have camera systems that bother me for certain reasons but I'm not on their forums complaining about products I can't afford and probably won't buy.

honestly I don't know you or anyone on here, none of you have to listen to me, all I am saying is to be polite discuss in a respectful manner otherwise all you are is a troll and should not be here in the first place, and if you aren't a troll or just overly angry then why remain here.

I don't mean to offend, have a good day and stay passionate.

edit: I have a 7D and a GH1 I like them for what they are stills cams that can shoot motion if you know what you are doing, there is a lot that can go wrong and a fair amount of limitations, never said there was anything wrong with them for the price, they are a great tool to get into the industry which can also be used on the professional level for crash cam's and such.

p.s. when I talked of peoples dreams being dead, I meant scarlet dreams, how on earth could I state a persons career dreams are dead without knowing a thing about them.
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Play nice stephen?

You really should read what you write, having tantrums, act mature?!, Well thanks dad, but if you talk down to people like that your really defeating your own argument. Why do we come here and discuss our problems with Red Stephen? Well threads are about debates and not everyone posting a message to jim jannard saying either amazing, your the best, Ill pay for that! etc etc. There are others that have been saving for years , shot on red, love red but are disappointed by further price increases and broken promises and a growing elitist attitude on these forums which includes yourself.

You totally miss that, while being deeply patronising at the same time. The red room is not a forum for simple Jannard worshipping but for debate, to express love and disappointment. Its really not meant for people like you, to shut people down who have been made disappointed and to make fun of their canon cameras.

plus p.s they Shot House and 24 on a 5d which simply is so much more than a crash cam...I love the fact you had to get another dig in again.

My arguments are very clear, Its your mentality thats fuzzy.
 
How about this: 3K for $3K is dead. Whatever it was or wasn't, it is dead. Things change. Live with it. Buy what works for you.
 
unfortunate this will not be a prosumer camera. thanks to all you shit-talking baboons (no offense please). a great thing comes along and you guys get your panties in a twist that there is not a bell and whistle on top of it. just shameful.
people 30 years ago, like my dad who was an aspiring DOP, are amazed and inspired by this pro-found technology. the day it finally comes along and its not GOOD enough? I mean, c'mon..! maybe this is the american way, but I know it's not ALL americans on this blog.
It seems to me, and this is just an observation. that RED has become crack and the people on this forum addicts. And when you deny them there fix, the result is people unhappy with there work and life; imagining a camera that will cure there sorrows.

are we artists? or tradesmen?. we must have.. HONOR. PASSION. RESPECT!

(i guess this is in response to the Scarlet/DSLR news) not directed at any ONE!
 
It really doesn't matter what Scarlet was, with the new features, it takes a higher position in the market. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up in the $7K to $10K range for fixed. I'm counting on more features to be added beyond HDRx between now and when the new ASIC and boards are designed. Now that we're officially out of the "volume" paradigm, the price/performance metrics will likely change.
 
the module prices would presumably all the the same though

If it was

2750 cinema brain
1500 for ssd module
1800 for 2 64GB ssds
300 for module adapter
550 for the redmote
500 for the pl mount
250 for the ssd reader
and say 1600 for battery module + whatever batteries you can get with whats left over from the modul

thats like 9250

add 1000 to that for the increased brain price and you get like 10250...i dont see how you that adds an inevitable 6000 increase
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Sure, I know that... I saw that prototype for myself at NAB '08. Never mind that most of the prototype shots in that youtube video had anywhere from $1.5K to $3K+ of accessories bolted onto the camera.
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Yeah, but the bolted-on stuff just made it more usable. Your question was, "Where did people ever get the idea that 3K for $3K was a complete package that they could pull out of the shipping box and shoot a film with?" It's been answered. Yes, that was more than two years ago, but it came from Red.

I really don't understand where all the complaints are coming from now. That was two years ago, two NAB's ago, many iterations of Scarlet have come and gone, including a couple price adjustments. RED hasn't uttered the 3K for $3K mantra in well over 2 years.
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Fine, but please don't intimate it never happened.

The days of pull the camera out of the box and shoot with it for $3K disappeared over 18 months ago, most people didn't take notice then. In fact, the prospects of that never truly existed even back in early '08. $3K bought you a camera body with a built in lens, battery and a charger. Complete shootable kits were more, even back then.
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Well, I will give you that you had to buy the CF cards. But that was pretty much it, unless you wanted to bolt $1,500 worth of accessories onto it. The CF slots and the 4.8-inch LCD were integrated.

Scarlet went from an "under $3K" $2999 fixed lens camera to a modular fixed lens camera for $3750 (or a modular interchangeable lens camera for $2700) a long, long time ago. Yes, you could buy that $3750 brain and shoot with it. But not very well. A workable kit was announced for $4750. So I guess that's now $5750.
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Actually, the $3,750 figure was the first price for the modular fixed's kit, which was raised to $4,750 last December.

Even back in the days of "3K for $3K", that isn't what you were really getting even if the camera really met all the hype back then. I'm sorry people got that impression. I don't know anyone who was actually at NAB and saw the prototype, talked to anyone at RED, maybe even got to touch the prototype and still walked away with that the impression that $3K would buy them a complete out of the box kit to shoot with. It was $3K for a 3K fixed-lens camera body/brain. That's it. Disagree with me all you want, I've said my bit and won't pursue it any further...
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It's not a matter of disagreeing with you. It seems that from everything Red published around NAB 2008, the "3K for under $3K" camera pretty much had what's in the current kit (except that the LCD was bigger and the camera had an additional CF slot). But, yeah, you still had to buy the CF cards.

What's my point? (By the way, Jeff, this isn't aimed solely at you.) Simply that even though the "3K for under $3K" days are long over, diehard Red supporters really have to take a step back and be more objective and less hostile. Jim has conceded that the mass-market program was a mistake, but it did happen. Please try not to flame people who raise points of fact. They aren't all whiners, and they aren't paranoid conspiracists. When someone quotes Jim Jannard or anyone else at Red and it doesn't jibe with what you remember, it isn't necessarily wrong or taken out of context. They may have legitimate points. And while everything is subject to change (count on it), that's not the same thing as saying something never happened or was never said. People can legitimately disagree with you.
 
yeh that price list seems about right, scarlet fixed package still cheapest route

(assuming prices don't change again)

BTW - I'm still in. I can 'man up' to these pro prices
 
Jeff Coatney said:
Thanks, Terry. I did read them. If you weren't so busy being rude, you'd know that I meant across the board, i.e: including Epic...
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I guess I missed how specific you were being with that eloquent statement. Jim has been pretty clear and specific about price changes relative to the spec changes. Of course, "...subject to change."
 
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