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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet...

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Erwin Vanderhoydonks said:
I think this is the end of Scarlet (Fixed 2/3") for me. I started the dream with the Scarlet 3K for $3K. I had no problem with the extra features and money when it went to $4.750. But I was already at $8.600 with the extra features (Module Adapter, SDD Module 1.8", Red Station 1.8", RED Mag 1.8" 128GB). And I thing this extra $1.000 is just the end. I still hope I can explain this extra, but...
I'm happy for all you guys how will have fun with it. Enjoy and keep on creating great movies.
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Well... Now you´ll get 64GB SSD instead of 128GB. Buy/rent more when you can afford it. Done. :smile5:
 
Is it possible to be happy and disappointed at the same time?

Yes, it is.
I'm super happy HDRx will be part of the Scarlet family.
But I'm disappointed I'll have to wait longer to get my hands on it.

The extra $1k won't be too terrible, but it's doable.
Obviously, even at $6k, the 8x beats the snot out of everything else in the price range by several miles. The competition in that range is still working with ~9 stops of DR going into 8-bit RGB using various lossy compression schemes. Not to mention smaller sensors, lower resolution, more noise and no upgrade paths.
If you want RAW, forget it. Not in that price range.
If you want 13-18 stops of DR, forget it. Not in that price range - or any other at this point, really.

Even at $12k the 8x would kick serious ass - but please don't go there :smile:
 
I'm wondering how many Epic owners are seriously concerned that Scarlet will undervalue their cameras? I have always felt that there was never really enough to differentiate Epic and Scarlet.

HDRx™™ was one feature that would have added serious value to Epic but now this is to be added to Scarlet this is no longer the case and I strongly feel that Red will lose many Epic sales because of this.

Ultimately Epic is 4 times the price of Scarlet and logically it should be 4 times the camera.

No offence intended to any potential Scarlet owners but this has worried me all along and appears to be a marketing flaw. Sony and Panasonic fully understand this concept of price/performance differentiation across their range. If the EX1 offered almost the same quality/features as the F900, why would you buy the F900?

Best wishes

Scott
 
This is why I'm concerned (among other reasons):


Jannard said:
Why is RED so late releasing EPIC and Scarlet?
...
4. Stuff changes. We have added capabilities along the way the complicated the process. This is a disruption to the program and adds time to process.

5. Nothing works like it is supposed to. The amount of boards and lines of code needed for this project are not comprehensible. Everything needs to be done several times to get it right.

No one is as frustrated as me over the delays. But it is what it is. The process just simply takes more time than anyone would expect.

But forgive us if we don't meet deadlines. This is really hard stuff.

Jim
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I think the chance of this new feature causing only slight delays is quite low. At this point I've resigned to never getting my hands on a Scarlet not because of price hikes (heck, in the extra development time $1000 should be easy to scrounge up), but because of the endless release date - new feature - development extension - release date cycle RED has entered.

As I've said before, the product has to be released at some point. There will ALWAYS be a newer and better feature to add, and the likelihood of discovering a couple each time you add development time is high. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't this the point of the modular system? As features change, simply swap out the brain. But if there's never a brain released to swap out... "Obsolescence Obsolete" takes on an entirely new meaning.
 
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Seriously guys, even for an extra 1000 for what is being promised is an amazing deal. To be honest I'd pay 2-3 extra if I was given the opportunity to buy now.

Nice work Jim.
 
Scott Brown said:
No offence intended to any potential Scarlet owners but this has worried me all along and appears to be a marketing flaw. Sony and Panasonic fully understand this concept of price/performance differentiation across their range. If the EX1 offered almost the same quality/features as the F900, why would you buy the F900?
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Funny, I was kind of liking how RED actually charges fairly for their cameras rather than artificially limiting features on the lower models to protect the higher ones.

And surely it's a little ridiculous for you to be saying anything like that when you look at the features announced and demonstrated for the EPIC, and then compare it and its price to a camera like the Alexa...

I think it's pretty simple, really - EPIC has massive advantages over the various Scarlet bodies. If you need those features (like the overcranking) then buy an EPIC, and be happy with how it's so much cheaper than cameras like the Alexa.
 
Jannard said:
We have decided to add $1000 to the price of Scarlet and include HDRx™ capability.
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Notice Jim said HDRx, not EasyHDR.

Once again, I may be reading too much into this, but does that mean EasyHDR will NOT be a part of the package for Scarlet? Understandable given the extra in-camera processing power it seems this would require. This would be a difference between Epic and Scarlet, impacting ability to preview HDR footage and turnaround time.

In any case, thanks for asking, listening, and getting back with a quick decision. Amazing behavior for any company.

I think this puts the final nail in the coffin of any high-end prosumer sales model and puts even Scarlet Fixed AT LEAST in the dead-serious amateur, wannabe Digital Cinema pro category in terms of price and workflow. Especially since it would seem SSD would need to be standard. Is standardization of the entire RED system on SSD being considered too?

I voted no on the poll, but since this will add minimal time to the release date, I'm elated at the decision.
 
Yup, Stephen - that is a funny point.
With this move RED has pitted their low-cost option against just about any high-end camera BUT Epic out there.

That's kinda rude, isn't it -:)
 
Or maybe HDRx was possible all along and we're all applauding a 1000$ price increase *playing devil's advocate*

If good or not, for me it just puts Scarlet further away, financially and timewise. So I'm not too happy. I could have lived with a second generation of brains in 3-5 years where dynamic range is a forgotten problem from the past and meanwhile start shooting 3k footage by the end of the year.

I just say, don't forget the Indy-people, Red.
 
I betchya the HDRx will be just like how I feel about HDR pics on my iPhone. When you compare, there's just no comparison and there's no looking back once you have dabbled in the goodness of HDR...

People at RED musta seen this same thing in Scarlet.
 
Jannard said:
We have decided to add $1000 to the price of Scarlet and include HDRx™ capability. The extra money will go to more boards and another ASIC plus development. The improvement is more than worth the effort. The image possibilities and capability are incredible.

We watched the voting, but more than that we know how much improvement HDRx™ is to the program.

It will only cause a slight delay in the program. You need to trust on this one...

Jim
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Not adding much value to the convo here, but had to express this --

YES!!!!!
 
This is the right move for RED - to get this technology into every hand possible. All the cool kids will want the extra stops.

It is making it harder to hang onto my future EPIC, though - I really don't see enough of a feature set difference between the feature set/price point...

...anymore, the EPIC premium seems to be more about paying for accessibility to the technology, getting it first and getting it out there - not the feature set.

it will make the EPIC harder to ROI, if manufacturing truly ramps and both cameras are released close together. that is a factor which will offset even the accessibility premium.

for RED's sake, this is a smart move, and I think it is awesome. as a future EPIC purchaser, I am beginning to wonder.

hmm...
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
as a future EPIC purchaser, I am beginning to wonder.

hmm...
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have to. EPIC will have a lot of headroom to grow. Scarlet will be operating at the top end of its performance envelope.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
This is the right move for RED - to get this technology into every hand possible. All the cool kids will want the extra stops.

It is making it harder to hang onto my future EPIC, though - I really don't see enough of a feature set difference between the feature set/price point...

...anymore, the EPIC premium seems to be more about paying for accessibility to the technology, getting it first and getting it out there - not the feature set.

it will make the EPIC harder to ROI, if manufacturing truly ramps and both cameras are released close together. that is a factor which will offset even the accessibility premium.

for RED's sake, this is a smart move, and I think it is awesome. as a future EPIC purchaser, I am beginning to wonder.

hmm...
Click to expand...
For me, it means just adding another camera that I wouldn't have considered before. I believe the Epic is a camera that will future-proof everything I will ever shoot. Scarlet will be that third camera that will compliment the Epics nichely.
 
Thank you Jannard. This is great news. I was nervous about it after reading how many people were opposed. It will definitely be worth the wait and minimal price increase.
 
Felix K. said:
Or maybe HDRx™ was possible all along and we're all applauding a 1000$ price increase *playing devil's advocate*

If good or not, for me it just puts Scarlet further away, financially and timewise. So I'm not too happy. I could have lived with a second generation of brains in 3-5 years where dynamic range is a forgotten problem from the past and meanwhile start shooting 3k footage by the end of the year.

I just say, don't forget the Indy-people, Red.
Click to expand...

My feelings exactly. I appreciate all the hard work and when it's in my hands I'm sure that it'll be worth it in the long run...it's just the thought of further delays that grate. Here in the UK we're getting a VAT rise in the new year. I was hoping to avoid that and spend more on accessories. Now I'm faced with buying a system that wont have all the functionality I require...ironically because of feature creep.

Can't please everyone I guess. Don't lose sleep on my account Jim.
 
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