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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Weapon?

Maybe the W allows for the 8k sensor to have a new name other than Dragon
 
Justen Nguyen said:
I was right about there being Monochrome Scarlet Weapon! I think the jury is still out on 5K. That number is so out of focus, it could be a 6. I mean Scarlet Dragon is technically a 6k sensor now. I doubt they'd regress! I'm thinking they move the Epic Dragon Monochrome sensors into the Scarlet W's. Come on Sam, where's that 5kws 120fps attitude? I think you may have hit the mark by posturing Red moving the Scarlet W's in to Epic Dragon territory of 150MB/s to 200 MB/s.
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On facebook the pic is clear, it's 5k.
What I meant is that I would prefer a 5k camera with some crazy epic compression than a non specialized-a-bit-of-everything crippled one. The scarlet had always had a bit of everything but less good than the others red cameras. I prefer to have a bit less resolution (not using the scarlet 6k), but doing it perfectly.That what is the Raven about, perfect 4k camera with perfect compression. Scarlet-W needs more datarate than Raven to be perfect in 5k. Basically an Epic MX with dragon sensor and Weapon body. Perfect.
 
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Seems like Scarlet-W is going to be 5.5K WS/5K full frame for now. Then after 6K Weapons start upgrading to 8K, all those 6K sensors and internals will just be transplanted to Scarlet-Ws making them 6K cameras.

It's good that there will be a Monochrome version of it, Epic Monochrome was too expensive to have for BW shoots, this should be more affordable.
 
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Hot Styles Confirmed
 
Looks like they are keeping the grey brain color. I hate to be that guy but the black weapon is so sexy. Maybe this isn't a production model yet. In the words of Spinal Tap, could it be anymore black?
 
Zachary Abitz said:
Looks like they are keeping the grey brain color. I hate to be that guy but the black weapon is so sexy. Maybe this isn't a production model yet. In the words of Spinal Tap, could it be anymore black?
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It is sexier because it is top of the line and Scarlet just isn't. It needs look different to easily differentiate the two without question. I'm OK with that and my Scarlet and I are closer than ever. I love her for who she is. ;-) How 'bout you?
 
Demetri Zuev said:
I really wonder where does Epic Dragon fit in all this.
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That's what I wonder as I have been shopping for a used one. Methinks those prices are going to drop faster than owners had hoped.
 
sam karr said:
But the Raven is close now. 4.5K @120fps. For 6000$.
And the Raven's data rate is 140MB/s. I would bet on some datarate increase on the scarlet-W compared to Raven. Even unchanged at 140MB/s max, and according to the redcalculator page on red.com, it means 96fps @5K 15:1 or 120fps @5KWS 15:1 or 24fps @6k 6:1. Epic dragon datarate is 170-200MB/s (depending on the minimag), Weapon 225 to 300MB/s. Maybe they will just increase the scarlet-W datarate to 150MB/s that will permit to do 5k HFR @14:1 instead of 15:1, 5.5kWS 100fps 14:1 and 6K 24fps 5:1.
Or maybe the scarlet-W will just replace the epic dragon.
We would have:
Raven 140MB/s
Scarlet-W 170-200MB/s
Weapon 225-300MB/s
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While I think its a possibility. I think you have to keep in mind that the Scarlet-W will also have a swappable lens mount and OLPF. While it wouldn't shock me to see 5K 96 and 120 at WS on the Scarlet W, it's gonna kill the market for the Epic Dragon for anyone still shooting on that, especially if they couldn't afford the Weapon upgrade.

I just think the Raven is in such a different world with a fixed lens mount. I don't think its directly comparable to the rest of the line up in terms of feature offerings.

Thats just my .02.

That said i'm not opposed to the idea of it replacing the Dragon, and maybe not offering ProRes to protect the Weapons? Or a limited 6K frame rate perhaps. I'm ok with this if there is some kind of trade in option for Epic Dragon users as well. However i've asked a few times and it's been pretty silent in terms of that so i'm kinda guessing with my gut there may not be that option.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
While I think its a possibility. I think you have to keep in mind that the Scarlet-W will also have a swappable lens mount and OLPF. While it wouldn't shock me to see 5K 96 and 120 at WS on the Scarlet W, it's gonna kill the market for the Epic Dragon for anyone still shooting on that, especially if they couldn't afford the Weapon upgrade.

I just think the Raven is in such a different world with a fixed lens mount. I don't think its directly comparable to the rest of the line up in terms of feature offerings.

Thats just my .02.

That said i'm not opposed to the idea of it replacing the Dragon, and maybe not offering ProRes to protect the Weapons? Or a limited 6K frame rate perhaps. I'm ok with this if there is some kind of trade in option for Epic Dragon users as well. However i've asked a few times and it's been pretty silent in terms of that so i'm kinda guessing with my gut there may not be that option.
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Well it's sad to say and difficult to accept for many but it's the end of the road for the epic dragon. Red is already in the Weapon future. It would not be the first time for them to change things drastically. They focus on their new lineup which should be there for at least a couple of years. I don't think that they want to take into account old lineup vs new one. That's why they offer upgrades, to move forward. We have to compare scarlet-w with raven and weapon. I remember Jarred saying "Or wait for the new Scarlet, which is going to be one badass disruptive little motherfucker". I don't think it would fit with just a scarlet dragon in a weapon body with a little better compression. But if they limit it to 5k (like it seems they will on Jarred FB pic) with super good datarate it will protect the epic and weapon 6k and be really better than the Raven. They will obviously offer Prores, like the Raven. The Scarlet-W will have the resolution of the Epic MX with the power of the Epic Dragon in a Weapon body.

 
The Epic Dragon is still shooting 6K which gives a better 4K image. If the Scarlet-W only shoots 5K that's not gonna give you the same quality really. And we don't know about compressions or high speed.
If it can shoot 120 fps 5K that's another thing, but I'll doubt it.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
The Epic Dragon is still shooting 6K which gives a better 4K image. If the Scarlet-W only shoots 5K that's not gonna give you the same quality really. And we don't know about compressions or high speed.
If it can shoot 120 fps 5K that's another thing, but I'll doubt it.
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With a 6000$ raven which can do 120fps @4.5k? I think there is no doubt. Even with the Raven's 140MB/s datarate you can do 5kWS @120fps 15:1 (http://www.red.com/tools/recording-time). So, in your opinon, the badass disruptive scarlet Jarred talked about is the scarlet dragon with a new body and 60fps? I really don't think so. That would be so disappointing. I really think we will have epic 5kws 120fps 12:1 capabilities, but no 6k at all.
 
sam karr said:
Well it's sad to say and difficult to accept for many but it's the end of the road for the epic dragon. Red is already in the Weapon future. It would not be the first time for them to change things drastically. They focus on their new lineup which should be there for at least a couple of years. I don't think that they want to take into account old lineup vs new one. That's why they offer upgrades, to move forward. We have to compare scarlet-w with raven and weapon. I remember Jarred saying "Or wait for the new Scarlet, which is going to be one badass disruptive little motherfucker". I don't think it would fit with just a scarlet dragon in a weapon body with a little better compression. But if they limit it to 5k (like it seems they will on Jarred FB pic) with super good datarate it will protect the epic and weapon 6k and be really better than the Raven. They will obviously offer Prores, like the Raven. The Scarlet-W will have the resolution of the Epic MX with the power of the Epic Dragon in a Weapon body.
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You might be right. However we don't know anything in terms of what its going to be yet.

Obviously I understand the need to have to move up and upgrade as RED keeps moving on.

Anything is really speculation other than what evidence you can draw from the photos Jarred has posted.
 
sam karr said:
With a 6000$ raven which can do 120fps @4.5k? I think there is no doubt. Even with the Raven's 140MB/s datarate you can do 5kWS @120fps 15:1 (http://www.red.com/tools/recording-time). So, in your opinon, the badass disruptive scarlet Jarred talked about is the scarlet dragon with a new body and 60fps? I really don't think so. That would be so disappointing. I really think we will have epic 5kws 120fps 12:1 capabilities, but no 6k at all.
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Again, you might be right. The thing you have to remember is that they're also different cameras. Fixed lens mount vs. Non fixed lens mount. There are other variables as well. The other issue is they start encroaching on the Weapon Magnesium a bit with the specs you're pushing for.

While i'm not against it, I've just always found it best to reel in expectations until we start seeing more evidence. I'd be 100% ok with whatever RED releases. They usually exceed what i'd expect to be honest. However this camera is going to sit in a pretty interesting gap. It'll be fun to see how it plays out.
 
sam karr said:
With a 6000$ raven which can do 120fps @4.5k? I think there is no doubt. Even with the Raven's 140MB/s datarate you can do 5kWS @120fps 15:1 (http://www.red.com/tools/recording-time). So, in your opinon, the badass disruptive scarlet Jarred talked about is the scarlet dragon with a new body and 60fps? I really don't think so. That would be so disappointing. I really think we will have epic 5kws 120fps 12:1 capabilities, but no 6k at all.
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I think you are probably right Sam. If Scarlet Weapon has Raven or higher data rates, it could have tremendous 5K potential.
 
We know for a fact the throughput on the weapon system is better. I think 5k at a higher fps but not enabling 6k would be a good trade off to keep Epic Dragon's at least somewhat unique. The Scarlet Dragon now has the same FOV as what the Epic-X had I'm perfectly happy with that!

I think if we look at the compression to fps ratios for Raven it's already telling:
3:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 24 fps
8:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 60 fps
15:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 120 fps

I'd say expect those for Scarlet W at 5.5k
 
Hello folks... my 2cents is that it would be nice to know a little sooner than april at NAB what to expect in terms of price, upgrade options to see and evaluate what's best to do in terms of our pocket reach!

That would be nice!
 
Just saw a monochrome scarlet weapon pic on offhollywoods facebook
 
Justen Nguyen said:
We know for a fact the throughput on the weapon system is better. I think 5k at a higher fps but not enabling 6k would be a good trade off to keep Epic Dragon's at least somewhat unique. The Scarlet Dragon now has the same FOV as what the Epic-X had I'm perfectly happy with that!

I think if we look at the compression to fps ratios for Raven it's already telling:
3:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 24 fps
8:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 60 fps
15:1 REDCODE for 4.5K (4608 × 2160) at 120 fps

I'd say expect those for Scarlet W at 5.5k
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Well in fact the FOV is a bit different between MX 5k and dragon 5k as the pixel size is different. MX 5k is 27,6x14,6mm, dragon 5k is 25,6x13,5mm.
 
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