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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet S35 is now...

R. Schorman said:
I for one am glad the s35 Scarlet is gone because I don't have to worry about my investment getting eaten away by every person with $6,000 and the belief that they are a DP.
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Those who CAN work while those who aspire volunteer. If you CAN then those people shouldn't worry you. What would Lee Ermey say if he saw you like this? Grow some balls, and put an end to the chicken shit routine. Show some dignity!

The market will sort out the posers. Perhaps what you are really worried about is being sorted out with them.

When it comes to narrative work I am an aspiring sort. It has been difficult to put my finger on the real reason I hate this argument for higher prices, but now I know. It smacks of privilege and class warfare. It seems to say "I have more money than you, so I should have an advantage. I deserve this advantage and my skills or lack of them should not effect my ability to do what I want while the rest of you wait my table or dig a ditch or something." You see, my imagination sometimes gets the better of me.

You could call your Epic Marie Antoinette. Let them eat cake!
 
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Cory Petkovsek said:
Save the differentiations in names for differentiations in brains. You're going to have S35, FF35, 645, and 617 (which sounds less than 645). I'd keep the -M out and use designations for the four sensors, or for any other brain differences. Then use a similar convention for the Scarlet series: Fixed 2/3, 2/3, and ....?

Edit: Oh, this thread is about Epic-S specifically? Whatever you want to call it is fine, just consider where the future brain names will fit in to the mix and how the Scarlet naming convention will match lest you end up with model number soup like many other manufacturers.

Cory
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I think the FF35 cameras should all move on to the Monstro name and not be Epics at all. Let the model name reflect the sensor, or at least the sensor size, as with the latest move from Scarlet S35 to Epic-S.

Scarlet (2/3)
Epic (S35)
Monstro (FF35)
??? (645)
??? (617)
 
Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock said:
Elsie, believe me. EPIC-SS would cost RED *a lot* of sales here in Germany.

Especially with all those skull and crossbones symbols.

Jochen
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Jochen, then I think RED should definitely dub their new (old) model the Epic SS. 'Cause Germans appreciate precision and quality above all else (that's my impression, at least) and that means they would buy the Epic X instead.:laugh:

Seriously, I think if anyone would have the right to boycott the SS appendage to the name it would be the Jewish community, and maybe a few old fharts would do so. I'm thinking the ones among them who make movies understand perfectly the difference between "Super Sport" and "Shutzstaffel" Runes.

ADDITIONAL: Perhaps any snap judgements could be ameliorated by printing the letters as "Epic sS"
 
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Jeff Coatney said:
If an MX'd Red One is $25,000 and a 5K Epic X is $28,000+modules ($35,000 approx), anyone thinking you're going to get a camera that sits firmly between these two in capability for $8,000+ ($15,000) is crazy. Sure, when it was a stripped down 35mm box it made sense-- but the product evolved to a point that put it very close to the EPIC X. That can't be a cheap trick to pull off.
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Other than the addition of HDRx (likely but not certain, given Jim Jannard's comments) and possibly a higher maximum data rate, comparable to Scarlet's (my surmise only), we know next to nothing about Epic-S. Jim said there were added features, but it's unclear what these may be. The former Scarlet S35 was announced in the fall of 2008, but Red has said little about it since. But it was never a "stripped down 35mm box" -- it had lower frame and data rates than Epic-X's and, according to Jim, still does. Maybe it has been given feature parity with Scarlet. Price hikes have resulted in a near-doubling of Scarlet's original "3K for $3K" price, but price has increased only (God, I never thought I'd say that) $2,000 since its modularization, including the increase for HDRx. Slap that on the Epic-S to give it comparable features, and you're still at considerably less than $10K for the brain. Anything that would justify a substantial increase beyond that is a matter of pure conjecture at this point. Certainly a rebranding alone wouldn't.

But the big besides here is: If you see the Scarlet Fixed as somehow limiting to your toolset as a filmmaker because its not "35mm" then what does that really say about your plans and your skills? If you can't make compelling cinema with the Scarlet Fixed then you have a deficit of creativity and skill that no 35mm camera will ever make up for.
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Really? Then there's really no point in Red's manufacturing the Epic line since no one should need an S35-format camera.
 
Alexey Datsenko said:
????
What is S? What is X? What is M?
It are abslolutely unintelligible letters?

And What does is mean S or X or M????
It is nothing! Just a words! Without any hidden meaning!

Epic Extreme!
I can understand Who is Who instantly!
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Yes..not a bad idea..

Epic S for Standard
Epic X for Extreme
Epic M for Machina

extreme:
2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree;
3. Extending far beyond the norm:
 
Steve Das said:
Yes..not a bad idea..

Epic S for Standard
Epic X for Extreme
Epic M for Machina

extreme:
2. Being in or attaining the greatest or highest degree;
3. Extending far beyond the norm:
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Or maybe the Epic M could be renamed the Deus ex machina?
 
When I read Epic Extreme and Epic Light I undestand Who is Who!
When I read Epic S I need to read more about it to undertsand that S is means Standart! I want to understant the main positioning without additioanal adjustments! Or in this case there is have no sanse! We need to write Epic S and add (Standart) Epic X add (Extreme) it is not good! So I need one word or letter which is quite self-sufficient!
Epic Light! I understand what is Light! Epic Extreme - I understand What is Extreme! But What is S? Simple? Sexy? Super? What is X? X-files? What is M? Man? Mountain? I don't know! There are a lot of variations!
 
Regarding pricing:

If I am not mistaken... Epic was always planned to be built in USA whereas Scarlet would be sourced to the far east.

If this is correct, and Epic LT is now going to be made stateside, this will add to the overall cost.
 
Jim Retar said:
Regarding pricing:

If I am not mistaken... Epic was always planned to be built in USA whereas Scarlet would be sourced to the far east.

If this is correct, and Epic LT is now going to be made stateside, this will add to the overall cost.
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Indeed.
 
Jannard said:
As of now... we are considering:

EPIC-S (from the old Scarlet name... or STANDARD model)
EPIC-X
EPIC-M (for monster machined)

Does that work for everyone? :)

Jim
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Epic HM (handmade machined...but also full featured Epic)

Epic Light (or Lite) that was former known as a Scarlet S35...

Epic-X (for all RED users that were 2 & 3 stages applied)...

Epic (full featured Epic)...
 
Lawrence Bansbach said:
Other than the addition of HDRx™ (likely but not certain, given Jim Jannard's comments) and possibly a higher maximum data rate, comparable to Scarlet's (my surmise only), we know next to nothing about Epic-S. Jim said there were added features, but it's unclear what these may be. The former Scarlet S35 was announced in the fall of 2008, but Red has said little about it since. But it was never a "stripped down 35mm box" -- it had lower frame and data rates than Epic-X's and, according to Jim, still does. Maybe it has been given feature parity with Scarlet. Price hikes have resulted in a near-doubling of Scarlet's original "3K for $3K" price, but price has increased only (God, I never thought I'd say that) $2,000 since its modularization, including the increase for HDRx™. Slap that on the Epic-S to give it comparable features, and you're still at considerably less than $10K for the brain. Anything that would justify a substantial increase beyond is a matter of pure conjecture at this point. Certainly a rebranding alone wouldn't.
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This camera goes way beyond a re-branding. While the final, official details may be conjectural, the stated details from Red indicate a feature set that will be nearer to Epic X than the previous Scarlet S35 specs. The confirmed addition of HDRx alone requires a baseline increase in frame rates just to function.

Lawrence Bansbach said:
Really? Then there's really no point in Red's manufacturing the Epic line since no one should need one an S35-format camera.
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I'll stand on my comments. But, please, Lawrence, let's not use "straw man" arguments.
 
Jeff Coatney said:
Begin Rant:



If an MX'd Red One is $25,000 and a 5K Epic X is $28,000+modules ($35,000 approx), anyone thinking you're going to get a camera that sits firmly between these two in capability for $8,000+ ($15,000) is crazy. Sure, when it was a stripped down 35mm box it made sense-- but the product evolved to a point that put it very close to the EPIC X. That can't be a cheap trick to pull off.
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yeah, you make sense, but hey, to be fair, "people" aren't the ones that made the (8k body) price projection and let it flow around for 2 years! : )
 
Jeff Coatney said:
This camera goes way beyond a re-branding. While the final, official details may be conjectural, the stated details from Red indicate a feature set that will be nearer to Epic X than the previous Scarlet S35 specs. The confirmed addition of HDRx™ alone requires a baseline increase in frame rates just to function.
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Don't mean to interfere in your discourse with Lawrence, but this statement is precisely why I keep holding out for some form of "sport" to be part of the newly created camera.

In horticultural terms "sport" means a new form of an old plant. It could simply be a natural mutation of something like a bluebonnet flower into a new lineage of bluebonnet that is yellow or green or red or whatever. This new Epic ? meets all criteria of being a "sport" from the Scarlet version.
 
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