Scarlet S35 is now...

[Terry VerHaar]

Give the guy a break...

Give the guy a break...

Come on, folks. I think Jim deserves a little more respect and a little more slack than some folks seem willing to cut him. Here's a guy who could be sitting on an island (his OWN island, for that matter) sipping Mai Tai's and frolicking with his family while playing with any number of toys you or I could imagine. But, instead, he has a vision and the guts and commitment to make it happen. He's got passion, he has a sense of humor and he's got enough leadership skills to command the respect of some of the best minds in the business, along with many additional talented workers who will clearly "go the distance" for him.

Is he perfect? No, he makes mistakes and when he does, he makes fun of himself which, to me, shows he has an awfully healthy combination of humility and ego. Could he do it better? I am sure he could - in some theoretical world. There are always ways to "improve" things and he seems to be striving to do just that. But in this one, he seems to be doing pretty well, despite his "mistakes." He accomplished a pretty impressive thing in his "old life" spanning 25 years. I'd suggest he has already accomplished something even more impressive in this "new chapter." And he's just beginning.

I am not some starry-eyed kid with hero worship. Jim is only a few years older than I am. And, I wish I had accomplished 1% as much in my own career thus far. Believe me, I can respect how hard it is to do what he has done, and keep the fire burning. Please, just give the guy the respect he has earned and try accepting his decisions to share, or not share, as he tries to do the impossible. I know I am talking to a small minority here as most feel about RED the way I do. But please, the least we can ALL do is respect him and listen clearly to what he is saying when he signs off with:

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

And remember, he also says...

We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude. :w00t:

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Come on, folks. I think Jim deserves a little more respect and a little more slack than some folks seem willing to cut him. Here's a guy who could be sitting on an island (his OWN island, for that matter) sipping Mai Tai's and frolicking with his family while playing with any number of toys you or I could imagine. But, instead, he has a vision and the guts and commitment to make it happen. He's got passion, he has a sense of humor and he's got enough leadership skills to command the respect of some of the best minds in the business, along with many additional talented workers who will clearly "go the distance" for him.

Is he perfect? No, he makes mistakes and when he does, he makes fun of himself which, to me, shows he has an awfully healthy combination of humility and ego. Could he do it better? I am sure he could - in some theoretical world. There are always ways to "improve" things and he seems to be striving to do just that. But in this one, he seems to be doing pretty well, despite his "mistakes." He accomplished a pretty impressive thing in his "old life" spanning 25 years. I'd suggest he has already accomplished something even more impressive in this "new chapter." And he's just beginning.

I am not some starry-eyed kid with hero worship. Jim is only a few years older than I am. And, I wish I had accomplished 1% as much in my own career thus far. Believe me, I can respect how hard it is to do what he has done, and keep the fire burning. Please, just give the guy the respect he has earned and try accepting his decisions to share, or not share, as he tries to do the impossible. I know I am talking to a small minority here as most feel about RED the way I do. But please, the least we can ALL do is respect him and listen clearly to what he is saying when he signs off with:

"Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

And remember, he also says...

We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude. :w00t:

+ 1

Well said Terry.

He really IS trying to do the impossible. I know he will not mind about a few people bitching.
He knows far too well that 99,99% of all Redusers are truly respecting him.

When EPIC ships this industry will never be the same. It's amazing what one man with one vision can do.

 

[Matt Fleming]

I think this is a reflection of the rapid progress in electronics in general that can apply to other specialist camera manufacturers too.
The most impressive aspect in respect to REDs timeframe is its business goals and management, namely of aiming high, buying into an existing business, employing appropriate specialists and building its customer base.


Mike Brennan

Mike, I think you're forgetting or are unaware of the unbelieveable jump in technology the RED ONE brought when it first was introduced. It was unheralded. It's resolution alone seemed so jaw-droppingly impossible (at any price range) for a video camera that some industry insiders infamously called it a "scam". That's not even mentioning the high frame rates and the equally impressive file size of the RED CODE.

Hope I'm not putting words in your mouth but your post makes it sound like this was all just on the verge of coming out anyway by somebody and RED was just there at the right place and time to cash in on it.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I know he will not mind about a few people bitching.
He knows far too well that 99,99% of all Redusers are truly respecting him.

This exactly what I don't like about the vibe here, and what I tried to reply on in my post.

You cannot say anything or you are a bitcher, a non-believer, you aren't giving Jim the right credit, you are this or that.
Again, read my posts. I was there from the beginning, when there were very few of us. I talked for 4 years non stop about RED to anyone around me. They are sick of hearing me talk about RED. I was one of the very very first believers in the whole project, again, when Jim was just asking on DVinfo what people would want in a camera without limits (does anyone remember that? Even the website with that one 4K drag racing image wasn't online then).
I have nothing but the highest respect for the RED Team. It doesn't mean you can't say anything negative.

Any bit of criticism and bam, you are a bitcher who doesn't give RED the credit they deserve, you are the 0,01 procent that doesn't 'truly' respect them. Please. Can we discuss a bit more like adults?

 

[David Rasberry]

Mike, I think you're forgetting or are unaware of the unbelieveable jump in technology the RED ONE brought when it first was introduced. It was unheralded. It's resolution alone seemed so jaw-droppingly impossible (at any price range) for a video camera that some industry insiders infamously called it a "scam". That's not even mentioning the high frame rates and the equally impressive file size of the RED CODE.

Advances in basic electronic components and fab processes don't by themselves make a product. They just provide engineering tools. Without an aggressive visionary small company like Red to push the product development envelope, we would not be seeing the major efforts from other companies to step up to the bar. Big corporations make more profits from the status quo and only develop what they must to remain competitive.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

This exactly what I don't like about the vibe here, and what I tried to reply on in my post.

You cannot say anything or you are a bitcher, a non-believer, you aren't giving Jim the right credit, you are this or that.
Again, read my posts. I was there from the beginning, when there were very few of us. I talked for 4 years non stop about RED to anyone around me. They are sick of hearing me talk about RED. I was one of the very very first believers in the whole project, again, when Jim was just asking on DVinfo what people would want in a camera without limits (does anyone remember that? Even the website with that one 4K drag racing image wasn't online then).
I have nothing but the highest respect for the RED Team. It doesn't mean you can't say anything negative.

Any bit of criticism and bam, you are a bitcher who doesn't give RED the credit they deserve, you are the 0,01 procent that doesn't 'truly' respect them. Please. Can we discuss a bit more like adults?

In Jim's original post dated November 26th (see top of this thread). He said he would have an update in "the next two weeks". That woud have been well before Christmas.

Mathieu, I did get what you were saying.
You can criticize as much as you want as long as it's constructive.

Bitching about Jim's update being late is not being constructive.
You don't do that if you know how difficult building these cameras is.

BTW, I think Daniel's post was completely innocent... Not a big deal.
When Jim says he'll update in the next two weeks, it's not a golden promise.

Again, read his Signature and you won't be disappointed...

Happy New Year !

 

[David Rasberry]

The announcements will come when there is something concrete and informative to announce. These guys are working 20 hour days to get all of this together. Give them a break.

 

[Eki Halkka]

...It was unheralded. It's resolution alone seemed so jaw-droppingly impossible (at any price range) for a video camera that some industry insiders infamously called it a "scam"..

I have to steal a little of the thunder here, before Red, there was Dalsa Origin that was 4K (maybe others too) - i was actually involved in a short that was shot with it in 2006 (released 2007):

http://www.postcardsfromthefuture.net/

 

[David Rasberry]

I have to steal a little of the thunder here, before Red, there was Dalsa Origin that was 4K (maybe others too) - i was actually involved in a short that was shot with it in 2006 (released 2007):

http://www.postcardsfromthefuture.net/

It is not just the resolution. It is the total package. Redcode made the R1 a practical self contained field camera that could record to portable media. The Dalsa had to be connected to a small refrigerator sized server.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

People at RED are on vacations. So it would be wise to give a break a week or so...

Patrick


PS: Has any one an info about the price and schedule for the Scarlet-S? ;-)

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

People at RED are on vacations. So it would be wise to give a break a week or so...

Patrick


PS: Has any one an info about the price and schedule for the Scarlet-S? ;-)

Last we heard of, the price for the EPIC-S (New name for Scarlet S35 and EPIC Lite) should be around $12K for the body and production should begin in April. But things can change until the next update...

 

[Eric Lange]

You're welcome Eric.

Last price we heard about is $12K for the EPIC-S body.
As usual everything is subject to change until the next update...

But we'll know pretty soon. Production should begin in February for the EPIC-X and in April for the EPIC-S.
My bet is that we'll have a full update with final price and specs in January.

If you're shooting 3D EPIC is the way to go. Nothing comes close in terms of size and resolution.
And I'm not even talking about HDRx™ and Magic Motion. EPIC is the game changer.

2011 will be amazing...

Thanks again Stefan,

2011 wil certainly be an amazing year!

Ta.

Eric

 

[Eki Halkka]

It is not just the resolution. It is the total package. Redcode made the R1 a practical self contained field camera that could record to portable media. The Dalsa had to be connected to a small refrigerator sized server.

Did you read what i was replying to? :emote_hippie:

 

[David Rasberry]

Did you read what i was replying to? :emote_hippie:

Yes, and I agree with your basic point. Red is still quite unique in building a practical high resolution raw field camera for about the same price as a mid range HD EFP camera though.

 

[Ben A.]

Wondering if the name change means we will see this camera around the same time as the full blown Epic or will we see it when Scarlet hits?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Wasn't that supposed to be $7K for the body originally?

What is $7K now?

 

[Wayne Morellini]

How much is the full 35mm now?

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Wasn't that supposed to be $7K for the body originally?

What is $7K now?

The old $7,000 Scarlet S35 body went up to $8,000 for having HDRx.

Then it went up to about $12,000 for being now part of the EPIC lineup. The new name for the body is EPIC-S.

We are all waiting for Jim's update with final price and specs.

 

[Eki Halkka]

The old $7,000 Scarlet S35 body went up to $8,000 for having HDRx™.

Then it went up to about $12,000 for being now part of the EPIC lineup. The new name for the body is EPIC-S.

We are all waiting for Jim's update with final price and specs.

My wild, yet somewhat educated guess is that there never was a $8000 S35 scarlet. That $1000 increase in price was for the 3K scarlet only, i think.

The 3K scarlet probably needs something like a cache for the 2nd stream of HDRx™, and maybe a board that mixes the streams in real time, but the scarlet platform itself has the required processing power for the data throughput - there is enough headroom at moderate frame rates.

The case for S35 is different - merely adding image cache and mixing (or whatever the extra board required for HDRx™ is) wasn't enough - due to higher resolution and thus higher amounts of data to push through, the scarlet platform's processing power was already more or less maxed out as is, at regular frame rates. So, in order to enable HDRx™ is S35, they had to change it to epic platform which has more throughput.

In light of this, it might very well be that adding HDRx™ to the camera now known as Epic-S required changes that up the cost not by $1000, but rather by $5000 (or whatever the final price will be).

...purely speculating here, but to me the above sounds pretty logical.

 

[Kyle Presley]

My wild, yet somewhat educated guess is that there never was a $8000 S35 scarlet. That $1000 increase in price was for the 3K scarlet only, i think.

The 3K scarlet probably needs something like a cache for the 2nd stream of HDRx™™, and maybe a board that mixes the streams in real time, but the scarlet platform itself has the required processing power for the data throughput - there is enough headroom at moderate frame rates.

The case for S35 is different - merely adding image cache and mixing (or whatever the extra board required for HDRx™™ is) wasn't enough - due to higher resolution and thus higher amounts of data to push through, the scarlet platform's processing power was already more or less maxed out as is, at regular frame rates. So, in order to enable HDRx™™ is S35, they had to change it to epic platform which has more throughput.

In light of this, it might very well be that adding HDRx™™ to the camera now known as Epic-S required changes that up the cost not by $1000, but rather by $5000 (or whatever the final price will be).

...purely speculating here, but to me the above sounds pretty logical.

Makes perfect sense.