Scarlet S35 is now...

[Michael Dalton]

The changes made from Scarlet S35 to EPIC-S are significant. It used to be on the original Scarlet platform and we moved it to the more comprehensive EPIC platform a couple of months ago. Big differences. Manufacturing in the US will cost more than Asia... but prices in Asia have also risen quite a bit in the last year or so.

Our biggest problem was announcing the program with one set of circumstances, being late... and the world changed.

Jim

Small added costs of a few grand is ok, just happy to support anything that gets one to me sooner.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Endearing 1st post... I also said subsequent to that post that we decided not to put out any info until we were done, since so many things were changing.

Jim

Jim, I'm an avid believer in RED, believed in you and visited the RED booth on IBC in 2006, saw the first rushes from Frankie on the big screen. Never had the budget for a Red One, but kept defending it, and now the same with the Scarlet. People laughed at me in the Film Academy when I told them about RED. Now they all shoot their movies on one.

But to be honest, Daniel is just giving a fair answer. I know everything is subject to change, but please be a little more open to such posts, because he isn't saying anything that isn't true, and he isn't having a flamable tone or anything. I don't like the hostility here sometimes.
I even feel the need to first type how much I'm a supporter of RED, before I type a critical post like this, which maybe says enough.

You make an announcement about an announcement, and then it's just silent. Now we are almost at the point of getting an announcement about an announcement about an announcement. You have to agree that sometimes this gets a bit crazy.
I know you are very enthousiastic when visiting the boards, and that openness is appreciated most of the time and it has led to a lot of great things. It mostly has advantages, and sometimes some smaller disadvantages.
I just people deserve credit to be a little bit critical about some of these smaller things too, it doesn't mean they are an enemy to RED. Most of the time they are annoyed just because they are such big fans.
I was also very much looking forward to the S35 Scarlet (I still like that name, but enough discussion about that already ;-) ) and I also don't know if it's still in my price range (although I doubt it). That being said, a while ago I typed a pages-long mail to some friends why - if they are choosing to buy a camera for filmmaking - they should wait for the Scarlet, and I compared all the specs and features versus the new Sony's and Panny's from this world.
The day after you made this announcement, and I told them: "I'll update you in 2 weeks, possibly some things have changed again", and now I'm also still waiting. I don't think it's super super urgent in their case, but I'm not sure.

Know that this post is written by a supporter ;-) I don't want to get the same kind of answer, but I also wish I shouldn't be defending my opinion so much before writing anything critical.

Best regards and happy hollidays. You and the whole team more than deserved it.

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Jim, I'm an avid believer in RED, believed in you and visited the RED booth on IBC in 2006, saw the first rushes from Frankie on the big screen. Never had the budget for a Red One, but kept defending it, and now the same with the Scarlet. People laughed at me in the Film Academy when I told them about RED. Now they all shoot their movies on one.

But to be honest, Daniel is just giving a fair answer. I know everything is subject to change, but please be a little more open to such posts, because he isn't saying anything that isn't true, and he isn't having a flamable tone or anything. I don't like the hostility here sometimes.
I even feel the need to first type how much I'm a supporter of RED, before I type a critical post like this, which maybe says enough.

You make an announcement about an announcement, and then it's just silent. Now we are almost at the point of getting an announcement about an announcement about an announcement. You have to agree that sometimes this gets a bit crazy.
I know you are very enthousiastic when visiting the boards, and that openness is appreciated most of the time and it has led to a lot of great things. It mostly has advantages, and sometimes some smaller disadvantages.
I just people deserve credit to be a little bit critical about some of these smaller things too, it doesn't mean they are an enemy to RED. Most of the time they are annoyed just because they are such big fans.
I was also very much looking forward to the S35 Scarlet (I still like that name, but enough discussion about that already ;-) ) and I also don't know if it's still in my price range (although I doubt it). That being said, a while ago I typed a pages-long mail to some friends why - if they are choosing to buy a camera for filmmaking - they should wait for the Scarlet, and I compared all the specs and features versus the new Sony's and Panny's from this world.
The day after you made this announcement, and I told them: "I'll update you in 2 weeks, possibly some things have changed again", and now I'm also still waiting. I don't think it's super super urgent in their case, but I'm not sure.

Know that this post is written by a supporter ;-) I don't want to get the same kind of answer, but I also wish I shouldn't be defending my opinion so much before writing anything critical.

Best regards and happy hollidays. You and the whole team more than deserved it.

I feel your pain Mathieu. But making theses cameras is an extremely complex task.
The guys at RED are working like slaves. We really need to be patient.

If Jim could give us the EPIC-S update today he would. He knows better than everyone how frustrating this is.
But they are not ready yet. It may take another week or another month to have the update.

Remember that "everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates...". That means updates too...
The RED ONE was mind blowing. The EPIC is a miracle. Your friends will be able to buy a miracle in a few months... so have a little more patience.

Peace.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

I'd like to announce that Jim will make announcements and before you read anything into them... READ AND MEMORIZE HIS SIGNATURE.Repeat the mantra of his signature in Mirror at least 10 to 20 times.

Now you should be cured of any misplaced anxiety and/or expectations.

Until Jarred slips in one of his late night sneaky posts like... "Scarlet now available in the store" please keep remembering to repeat Jim's signature in the mirror.

 

[Andrew Salter]

I'd like to announce that Jim will make announcements and before you read anything into them... READ AND MEMORIZE HIS SIGNATURE.Repeat the mantra of his signature in Mirror at least 10 to 20 times.

Very wise words Tim

 

[Bill Anderson]

I'd like to announce that Jim will make announcements and before you read anything into them... READ AND MEMORIZE HIS SIGNATURE.Repeat the mantra of his signature in Mirror at least 10 to 20 times.

Now you should be cured of any misplaced anxiety and/or expectations.

Until Jarred slips in one of his late night sneaky posts like... "Scarlet now available in the store" please keep remembering to repeat Jim's signature in the mirror.

Mirror? I tried that but this is what I came up with:

"...setad yreviled dna sceps aremac ruo gnidulcni ...segnach efil ni gnihtyrevE

 

[John Stamets]

I'd like to announce that Jim will make announcements and before you read anything into them... READ AND MEMORIZE HIS SIGNATURE.Repeat the mantra of his signature in Mirror at least 10 to 20 times.

Now you should be cured of any misplaced anxiety and/or expectations.

Until Jarred slips in one of his late night sneaky posts like... "Scarlet now available in the store" please keep remembering to repeat Jim's signature in the mirror.

You speak truth!

I have been following this endeavor of Jim's since inception ten-ish years ago, but only just signed up on the board.

If you follow Red for any length of time, you will find that it is with the best of intentions that the Red team provides information, but they are best guesses on brand new technology and usually off by, well, years in some cases. Red One went through this same process and, eventually, it shipped. When ready, the new technology will ship as well.

By day, I write software and there is an adage in software development that goes something like this:
Rule 1: All development efforts will take twice as long as estimated.
Rule 2: Rule 1 is always accurate, even if you account for Rule 1.

I appreciate the hard work and dedication that Jim and his team are investing. In Red, via Scarlet or Epic-S, lies the only real hope I have of owning a camera that delivers the quality I desire and I am grateful for that. I know that this is more than a company for Jim, as I remember him posting something to the effect that he "was building a camera for himself and the rest of you are along for the ride" - or something similar. Critical or insensitive remarks can cut to the quick when levelled against a man's dream. I've a feeling you could call Jim whatever you wanted and he really wouldn't care, but unfairly criticize the image quality of his camera or the efforts of him or his team, and, well, them's fightin words...

 

[Michael Dalton]

sad to know we are still 6 months out for these scarlets.. maybe EPIC S will be the first in my stables.

 

[Steve Das]

Jim, I'm an avid believer in RED, believed in you and visited the RED booth on IBC in 2006, saw the first rushes from Frankie on the big screen....

Time is a relative concept. If you step back and consider that there
is a hundred and fifteen year history of cinema from the Lumiere
Cinematogrphe of 1895 to 2010. And Red shares only a 5 year span of that
history from 2005-2010 then you can appreciate what an achievement
it was to get the first machined Epic shipped out this month. Personally I remember
back in the Dark Ages of 2000 or so wondering if some of the camera's
features would..ever..even be achieved in my lifetime. So from that
point of view...little amazed the cameras even exist at all in 2010.

Interesting post on 2005 startup date..

The 1st RED "Spec Day" was Dec. 13th, 2005. We had no sensor design and no industrial design. We got a small group together to talk about what exactly this camera should be. The "GO" decision was made within a few days of this meeting. So RED officially committed to building a camera in December of 2005.

 

[Michael Brennan]

Time is a relative concept. If you step back and consider that there
is a hundred and fifteen year history of cinema from the Lumiere
Cinematogrphe of 1895 to 2010. And Red shares only a 5 year span of that
history from 2005-2010 then you can appreciate what an achievement
it was to get the first machined Epic shipped out this month.

I think this is a reflection of the rapid progress in electronics in general that can apply to other specialist camera manufacturers too.
The most impressive aspect in respect to REDs timeframe is its business goals and management, namely of aiming high, buying into an existing business, employing appropriate specialists and building its customer base.


Mike Brennan

 

[Michael Olsen]

I feel like their customer service and marketing should probably get a mention, too.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Guys, again, I was there when Jim asked in the very first DVinfo.net thread "what would you want in your dream camera?" long before there was even a mention of RED. I know what an achievement it is, how amazing it was/is, and I'm a full believer in RED's products and believe it or not, their marketing and customer relations.

I just defended the post of Daniel, which I thought was a very fair answer on a question that was being asked. I'm not even talking about the deadlines of the products themselves, I'm talking about the announcement about an announcement and then silence - thingie. I think the criticism about that was very valid, and I just wanted to express that I don't think Daniel got the response he deserved.

 

[Mike Bozulich]

Jim, I'm an avid believer in RED, believed in you and visited the RED booth on IBC in 2006, saw the first rushes from Frankie on the big screen. Never had the budget for a Red One, but kept defending it, and now the same with the Scarlet. People laughed at me in the Film Academy when I told them about RED. Now they all shoot their movies on one.

But to be honest, Daniel is just giving a fair answer. I know everything is subject to change, but please be a little more open to such posts, because he isn't saying anything that isn't true, and he isn't having a flamable tone or anything. I don't like the hostility here sometimes.
I even feel the need to first type how much I'm a supporter of RED, before I type a critical post like this, which maybe says enough.

You make an announcement about an announcement, and then it's just silent. Now we are almost at the point of getting an announcement about an announcement about an announcement. You have to agree that sometimes this gets a bit crazy.
I know you are very enthousiastic when visiting the boards, and that openness is appreciated most of the time and it has led to a lot of great things. It mostly has advantages, and sometimes some smaller disadvantages.
I just people deserve credit to be a little bit critical about some of these smaller things too, it doesn't mean they are an enemy to RED. Most of the time they are annoyed just because they are such big fans.
I was also very much looking forward to the S35 Scarlet (I still like that name, but enough discussion about that already ;-) ) and I also don't know if it's still in my price range (although I doubt it). That being said, a while ago I typed a pages-long mail to some friends why - if they are choosing to buy a camera for filmmaking - they should wait for the Scarlet, and I compared all the specs and features versus the new Sony's and Panny's from this world.
The day after you made this announcement, and I told them: "I'll update you in 2 weeks, possibly some things have changed again", and now I'm also still waiting. I don't think it's super super urgent in their case, but I'm not sure.

Know that this post is written by a supporter ;-) I don't want to get the same kind of answer, but I also wish I shouldn't be defending my opinion so much before writing anything critical.

Best regards and happy hollidays. You and the whole team more than deserved it.

Agreed. By now Jim should know better than anyone about pre-announcing things and keeping stated deadlines. It's his company, he can do what he wants, but it would sure be nice if something as simple as a promised deadline about information would be kept now and then. Sometimes it seems like the "things change" mantra is used as a crutch/excuse when promises aren't kept. Instead of pre-announcing a coming announcement, why not just wait until there's solid info to actually announce? I'll probably get flamed or chastised for such a post, but it really just seems like common sense. *Donning flame-retardent suit*....

 

[Eric Lange]

Endearing 1st post... I also said subsequent to that post that we decided not to put out any info until we were done, since so many things were changing.

Jim

Well at least Jim has a sense of humor.

As a design engineer I can tell you it’s unbelievably difficult to get these things OUT THE DOOR, especially when all of the 3rd party technologies that you depend on as well as what your competitors are delivering are constantly in flux. It can be a real nightmare. If you are building a “me to product” then things are much more predictable, however for something very new, all I can say is when the time is right the time right, nothing can push this forward, and then things naturally slot into place and products sail out the door.

I think the idea of the Epic lite/Epic-s is a brilliant move especially for a line of products that will have some longevity. This is a much longer term view that seems to make a lot of sense.

However I feel like I have been asleep at the wheel, if there is an Epic-lite in the works, in terms of very basic image acquisition (i.e. sensor size and number of sensor elements/Mps), where does this leave the trusty Red-One (with or without Mysterium-X) by comparison? So if you want to create a cinematic masterpiece we go Epic, if we are not making Laurence of Arabia we go Red One/Mysterium X. Where does an Epic-Lite fit into all this? I’m a little confused as to its intended use. I’m sure when it comes out I’m practically going to pee my pants, but still what is its intended use and target user?

Any ideas?

Ta.

Eric

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Well at least Jim has a sense of humor.

As a design engineer I can tell you it’s unbelievably difficult to get these things OUT THE DOOR, especially when all of the 3rd party technologies that you depend on as well as what your competitors are delivering are constantly in flux. It can be a real nightmare. If you are building a “me to product” then things are much more predictable, however for something very new, all I can say is when the time is right the time right, nothing can push this forward, and then things naturally slot into place and products sail out the door.

I think the idea of the Epic lite/Epic-s is a brilliant move especially for a line of products that will have some longevity. This is a much longer term view that seems to make a lot of sense.

However I feel like I have been asleep at the wheel, if there is an Epic-lite in the works, in terms of very basic image acquisition (i.e. sensor size and number of sensor elements/Mps), where does this leave the trusty Red-One (with or without Mysterium-X) by comparison? So if you want to create a cinematic masterpiece we go Epic, if we are not making Laurence of Arabia we go Red One/Mysterium X. Where does an Epic-Lite fit into all this? I’m a little confused as to its intended use. I’m sure when it comes out I’m practically going to pee my pants, but still what is its intended use and target user?

Any ideas?

Ta.

Eric

The RED ONE will retire when the EPIC-X and EPIC-S (the new name for EPIC Lite) will ship.
The main difference between the EPIC-X and the EPIC-S is overcranking.

The EPIC-X can shoot 5K at 120fps.
The EPIC-S will shoot 5K at 30fps (At least. Maybe a little more if we are lucky).

 

[Eric Lange]

The RED ONE will retire when the EPIC-X and EPIC-S (the new name for EPIC Lite) will ship.
The main difference between the EPIC-X and the EPIC-S is overcranking.

The EPIC-X can shoot 5K at 120fps.
The EPIC-S will shoot 5K at 30fps (At least. Maybe a little more if we are lucky).

Stefan thanks for such a clear and concise post.

Wow, much better than I dared to really hope for in terms of how things will stack up. Right now we have been doing 3d applications and R&D with Medium format digital backs as resolution is our highest priority, we weren’t able to pull the trigger on the RED One’s as the resolution was not enough for us. We have been doing things in a quasi dynamic fashion for high res, but 5k at 30fps will be absolutely fantastic for what we need, and I guess at a very attractive price point that won’t entirely kill the budget either.

Originally when the first Scarlet specs were released I was really hoping for the higher res larger sensor size of the FF35 but realized I would have to wait a very long time for that; however a 5k Epic-S far exceeds any normal hope or expectations I originally had for a dynamic system. For me, the TYPE of camera that we really need, is going to be put into my hands way sooner than I had ever hoped for (as compared to original proposed products and various time lines that underpinned the original Scarlet concept). I’m sure a lot of 3k for $3kers are going to be bummed, but for us/me I couldn’t be happier about the prospect of such a device/system/camera.

This really is the way forward, (without being too much of a suck-up), I’m super happy that RED and Jim have the balls, agility and smarts to make such a switch and move to an Epic-S. Awsome…

Cheers very much

Eric

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

Stefan thanks for such a clear and concise post.

Wow, much better than I dared to really hope for in terms of how things will stack up. Right now we have been doing 3d applications and R&D with Medium format digital backs as resolution is our highest priority, we weren’t able to pull the trigger on the RED One’s as the resolution was not enough for us. We have been doing things in a quasi dynamic fashion for high res, but 5k at 30fps will be absolutely fantastic for what we need, and I guess at a very attractive price point that won’t entirely kill the budget either.

Originally when the first Scarlet specs were released I was really hoping for the higher res larger sensor size of the FF35 but realized I would have to wait a very long time for that; however a 5k Epic-S far exceeds any normal hope or expectations I originally had for a dynamic system. For me, the TYPE of camera that we really need, is going to be put into my hands way sooner than I had ever hoped for (as compared to original proposed products and various time lines that underpinned the original Scarlet concept). I’m sure a lot of 3k for $3kers are going to be bummed, but for us/me I couldn’t be happier about the prospect of such a device/system/camera.

This really is the way forward, (without being too much of a suck-up), I’m super happy that RED and Jim have the balls, agility and smarts to make such a switch and move to an Epic-S. Awsome…

Cheers very much

Eric

You're welcome Eric.

Last price we heard about is $12K for the EPIC-S body.
As usual everything is subject to change until the next update...

But we'll know pretty soon. Production should begin in February for the EPIC-X and in April for the EPIC-S.
My bet is that we'll have a full update with final price and specs in January.

If you're shooting 3D EPIC is the way to go. Nothing comes close in terms of size and resolution.
And I'm not even talking about HDRx and Magic Motion. EPIC is the game changer.

2011 will be amazing...

 

[John Stamets]

Time is a relative concept. If you step back and consider that there
is a hundred and fifteen year history of cinema from the Lumiere
Cinematogrphe of 1895 to 2010. And Red shares only a 5 year span of that
history from 2005-2010 then you can appreciate what an achievement
it was to get the first machined Epic shipped out this month. Personally I remember
back in the Dark Ages of 2000 or so wondering if some of the camera's
features would..ever..even be achieved in my lifetime. So from that
point of view...little amazed the cameras even exist at all in 2010.

Interesting post on 2005 startup date..

Has it only been 5 years? I remember following this at my previous place of employment which I started 12 years ago. I was guessing 10 for Red. To accomplish all this in 5 years is even more phenomenal.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

2005 startup, but production cameras only appeared in 2007, so 3 years.

 

[George Butterfield]

Agreed. By now Jim should know better than anyone about pre-announcing things and keeping stated deadlines. It's his company, he can do what he wants, but it would sure be nice if something as simple as a promised deadline about information would be kept now and then. ....

I hope RED keeps their style, it's nice to have a different kind of Public Relations. The Cameras will arrive when they arrive ... it's nice to be kept informed about the day to day decisions and changes. Once the Epics start shipping we'll have our hands full shooting and wont have to hang on every new announcement.