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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet S35 is now...

Jannard said:
Heh heh... lots of crap on EPIC Light.

How about EPIC-A (the old Scarlet S35), the big brother EPIC-X and the machined monster EPIC-M?

Jim
Click to expand...

Epic-A sounds good. Epic-X yes. Epic-M sounds like it's an Epic with an M sensor (pre Red-MX). I'd suggest you call the machined Epic the Epic-XM.

But really...at this time of night, I should be sleeping.
 
Scott Brown said:
Jim

I think this makes complete sense. The Scarlet S35 was just way too close to Epic and totally confused your offering. I totally applaud your decision!

Now what's the price going to be on Epic light? I think $14000 would be a good starting point - half the cost of Epic X. Any thoughts?

Best wishes

Scott
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Where did Jim say they were stripping it down? I didn't see any mention of changing the specs, just the name.
 
Didn't say they were stripping it down, simply moving the Scarlet S35 over into the Epic family where it sits more comfortably from a marketing point of view.

Jim has mentioned a price change...to me this can only mean upwards!

Scott
 
fALk Gärtner said:
12k absolute max 14k (absolute max 15k with evf) otherwise I am screwed. :( it would suck seriously after all this wait to see the dream get thrown out of the window cause of a name change. and since i have the glass 2/3rd is not an option :(
Click to expand...

Your dream is not thrown out of the window because of the name change.
It's not thrown out of the window at all, you just have to work a little harder and longer to get there, like we all did. Besides, there were new features added, not just a name change. It didn't make sense to price Scarlet S35 with 80% of the features of Epic at $20k less.

I personally applaud this move, it made sense from the start and it makes even more sense now.
Thank you Jim!
 
Scott Brown said:
Didn't say they were stripping it down, simply moving the Scarlet S35 over into the Epic family where it sits more comfortably from a marketing point of view.

Jim has mentioned a price change...to me this can only mean upwards!

Scott
Click to expand...

So when you say
The Scarlet S35 was just way too close to Epic and totally confused your offering.
Click to expand...
you are saying what, that the name Scarlet was too similar to Epic, but now that it is called Epic the line will be better defined?
 
I get confused with lots of grumbles over the price of RED's cameras, especially the Scarlet range. People are making out that price changes are somehow destroying their dreams! Get real please...if you don't believe you can make serious money out of these cameras then you 100% are dreaming and perhaps the issue is lack of talent or self belief!!!!! Go buy a 5D :cryin:

For us, the RED One was a BIG investment BUT we believed it would make us money and provide a USP. Our RED paid for itself in the first project and has continued to make us money all along.

When we started out in business, a broadcast spec camera with lenses etc. would cost us in the region of $75000. Today access to the broadcast arena starts with something like a Sony EX1 and if you have talent a camera like this can make you a LOT of money. I just shot a documentary on a small Sony HDV camera that will be screened worldwide and will generate us $200000+ in revenue. It is not the camera, it is what you do with it that counts.

Please, NO MORE moaning about costs and shattered dreams....focus on how your RED will make you more money and develop your talent.

Rant over......

Best wishes

Scott
 
Scott Brown said:
I get confused with lots of grumbles over the price of RED's cameras, especially the Scarlet range. People are making out that price changes are somehow destroying their dreams! Get real please...if you don't believe you can make serious money out of these cameras then you 100% are dreaming and perhaps the issue is lack of talent or self belief!!!!! Go buy a 5D :cryin: ...

Please, NO MORE moaning about costs and shattered dreams....focus on how your RED will make you more money and develop your talent.

Rant over......

Scott
Click to expand...

What you seem to be overlooking is the fact that a large portion of the Scarlet audience to this point were not business people but independent artists and hobbyists. For many of them price was the primary concern and the specs were the gravy.

So the thing that makes the product lines clearer to you is the price structure and not the name? Are you one of those who is intimidated by a less expensive model?
 
Scott Brown said:
Hi Scott

Milan sums it up

Quote:
It didn't make sense to price Scarlet S35 with 80% of the features of Epic at $20k less.


Just didn't make any sense to me as a RED One owner. Out of interest Scott, are you a RED One owner?

Scott
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Nope, I'm not an owner yet so I'm not as focused on the value of a prior investment. While I understand why the price point of the camera formerly known as Scarlet concerned some owners, I see that concern as something that comes from overconfidence and lack of faith.

The overconfidence comes from the illusion that we were in possession of all of the specs. We are not. The devil lies in those details.

The lack of faith is not of one's own abilities, rather that Jim and the Red team were planning camera lines that always were clearly defined.

I can sympathize with worried R1 owners but I can't empathize, because I see how much Jim has done to protect the value of your investment. The lengths that he has gone in this regard are unprecedented. If I were in your shoes I might be a little uneasy, but not worried.

Respectfully,
Scott
 
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Scott Brown said:
.if you don't believe you can make serious money out of these cameras

Scott
Click to expand...


I believe I can make my dreams into pictures that other people might find enjoyable I don´t care if it makes me money - for that I have a boring job working for hollywood & co which could be much more enjoyable if it wasn´t all about money all the time in this business. And no a dslr on won´t do (for a multitude of reasons - mostly the codecgreensbluescreenissuesjellywobblelineskipnoraw) I would have one already if it would.
 
I think Jim has gone to great length to position the Scarlet range as "professional" i.e. for pro use. Scarlet is not and will not be a semi-pro tool. I think that while some will use the camera to chase their dreams of artistic brilliance, the majority will use these cameras as working tools to make money. There is no crime in being commercially driven and I make no apologies for this. Making money allows me to indulge in those jobs that don't pay well but "feed the muse" and allow us to help train the future generation of film makers.

For those who desire to follow artistic, non commercial pursuits, there is no shortage of camera that will allow you to do this and I think the 5D will do this perfectly well.

Jim is a commercially minded individual and while he too has a dream to empower us creatives with the finest tools possible, he has to run RED as a business and make a profit. Without this future generations of RED's will die before they are born.

Scott, I fully take on board your comments and respect them. Like many RED One owners I have been quite vocal in my thoughts about how RED are positioning Scarlet and the potential impact it will have on Epic sales. I'm glad now that Jim has taken on board these concerns but rest assured he will ensure that Scarlet does not disappoint and that all budget points are covered.

Best wishes

Scott
 
Come on people think about it, the R1 is now a few years old now, things are moving forward very fast now, any other camera devalues take the old sony P150 was great in its time, now has little value as a case in point. If your a pro, the camera is there to make you money with your productions. You try selling a second had old canon 5DII!

Jim has give the option of an Epic at a knock down price for R1 people who wish to take the upgrade option an amazing deal.

l have an EX1R and want a Scarlet x 8 and an epic light, say it costs me £ 20.000 in a few years time they wont be worth £ 20,000 maybe £ 10,000 its expected, things move on. I know the EX1R l bought this time last is only worth 50 to 60 % of what l paid for it, but is paid for its self many times over so its not an issue.

So get real if the epic light cuts the feet from the value of an old R1 so what, a new product a new price a new market that's life.

You buy a new mac 6 months later its not worth a lot!

Get real!!!
 
There are a lot of people who are like me, are small indie productions companies looking to up grade from the EX1 EX3 position, could go F3 or Epic light hmmm no brainer Epic light for the same money. The R1 was too big and heavy for my type of work. Now with the light Epics coming in l can offer my clients so much more for the same money and increase my work flow by moving into new markets.

There's always the Pani AF100 for those who don't want to spend the money. But to go a Af100 will still be about £ 8000 for a full kit!!
 
Hi Andrew

I agree about the weight/size issue of the RED One - I was able to give up my gym membership when it arrived :biggrin:

I think the Sony F3 is dead in the water when Scarlet & Epic ship....I just don't get this camera at all and it smacks of too little too late! I do however like the footage that Sony are showing from the camera BUT the big caveat is that attached to the F3 they had mega expensive glass and a Sony SRW1 HDCAM SR recorder. So to get close to RED quality images Sony has to use in excess of £50000 of "extras".

The Panasonic AF-AG100 however looks like a lovely little camera and would be ideal for those who need a camera to use until Scarlet ships. Nearly all accessories you would buy, including lenses would port directly over to Scarlet thus protecting your investment.

Best wishes

Scott
 
Scott Brown said:
Scarlet is not and will not be a semi-pro tool.
Click to expand...

Yes that has been made quite clear now. Jim was once the man who would bring pro quality tools to the masses, but no more. That is just a little disappointing to me. It isn't that I am not professional, rather because I'm lazy.

I hacked out a space in consumer photography and video production and I am very much in transition to the commercial space. I am not formally trained so it is an uncertain place to be. For me, Scarlet meant that I would not have to push into industrial/commercial work as hard while leaving consumer work mostly behind. It meant that I could focus more on the art and less on business... Like I said, lazy. ;-)

Sorry if I'm complicit in the jacking of your thread Jim.
 
Thats true Scott, but l've waited since April 2009 so can wait a few more months, if l need higher end l can hire in, but cuts in to my margins, otherwise the EX1R is still doing a great job.

Hows the snow your way, looKs to be quite bad.
 
Scott Brown said:
When we started out in business, a broadcast spec camera with lenses etc. would cost us in the region of $75000. Today access to the broadcast arena starts with something like a Sony EX1 and if you have talent a camera like this can make you a LOT of money. I just shot a documentary on a small Sony HDV camera that will be screened worldwide and will generate us $200000+ in revenue. It is not the camera, it is what you do with it that counts.
Click to expand...

Yes, very true indeed. But a documentary? Come on, 'ugly' pictures makes it more authentic. And wasn't there someone at Red who said that 4K is the future? Another thing, if you bought a HD-tv (720p) years ago, you would pay a lot more then what you would pay to get a Full-HD-tv today. Technology changes, improves and usually get cheaper. The game have changed, people want 35mm DOF and so do clients. And a lot of companies are beginning to offer this at prices that are much more reasonable then what they used to be.
 
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