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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet preview...

Sergio Perez said:
Michael, the 1D X is full frame 35mm, a completely different ballpark. Its a different aesthetic from S35, and some DP's chose full frame for aesthetic reasons when shooting their films/shows. (House MD, for example).

I expect professional to be, in Red terms, at least 4K. Sensor size I just can't figure it out. I would wild guess S35, but there's a very strong 2/3rds crowd over here so it all depends what Red is looking to respond to with the Scarlet... All in all, these are great times, like Jim said. I'm committed on buying a Red camera as my next purchase. I'm 90% ready for an Epic X order. The remained 10% is for an hypothetical switch to Scarlet S35- but I would have to know about what Jim means by "modularity" and "obsolescence obsolete" on the Scarlet camp... Red team, Jim, bring it on!
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Sorry just made the reference to prove Canon, Sony and other will always hack a camera together that is full of compromises to work with existing technology. They won't create something from the ground floor up to give people what they want. I don't think they want the pro market, they want the mass market, and you can hear a lot of whining on price here to know that there is a market.

My only wish was I had more then an hour to weigh my options now. 8x fixed was given at 6-7k. But as we climb higher, and it turns into a more pro camera. I will start to think more about an Epic-S out of the gate. Do I now need a scarlet 8x ? Ok, what am I'm saying, of course I do!!! I'll get an epic-s or x as well.

I'm starting to think the camera is 4k though, it does not fit with Red philosophy to be 3k. Either way I'll be happy... Man only 4 days till christmas!!!! Thanks Santa!
 
Jim, good decision to get some of the whining over, so it won't clutter up Nov. 3rd threads. I've always been a little uncomfortable with some of the Scarleteers who sound as if their whole deal is dependent on that camera. If you've got a good story and enough technique and gumption to make it happen, it doesn't make a whit of difference what camera you own. I made good films on Hi-8, one of the worst formats ever. Just had to be really careful with contrast and cut around the damn drop-outs. Get a zoom recorder and a G-12 and you can make a film for $600 plus the laptop you already have.

If the difference between $6K and $12K is a stopper, go out and work three jobs until you've earned the difference, and BTW, only then will you be working as hard as Jannard, or as hard as most of us who broke into this challenging, competitive, and creative trade.
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
1080 is about to become the new Black & White.

You can still shoot amazing movies on it. But it's a lot harder to convince distributors to pay you for it -
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Exactly, MP. And I have 30k in an Aaton XTR+ package I haven't shot a foot of film on in over 3 years.
I don't think that will happen with any Scarlets, regardless of price.
 
I had the mindset that good for those who can't afford the EPIC, get a Scarlet, close enough to same spec but far enough away in functionality that you get what you pay for... I am stumped as to what is going to happen on the 3rd .... Will my EPIC-M now be obsolete? Do I need to upgrade the chip? How long will that take? Is the X coming out along with the Scarlet (probably).... Damn.... Damn.... Damn.... Damn.... Though there is something nice about owning an original M Model, which wont exist soon.
 
Jannard said:
Scarlet is now a professional camera. It will be more expensive. And there will be no discounts for RED ONE owners.

That is all the bad news there is...

Jim
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well red always said scarlet is a processional tool, not a prosumer camera, in all the videos ted showed the scarlet, he always mentioned, scarlet is a professional tool.

so what has changed now? i don't get it?
 
Paul Ellington said:
I had the mindset that good for those who can't afford the EPIC, get a Scarlet, close enough to same spec but far enough away in functionality that you get what you pay for... I am stumped as to what is going to happen on the 3rd .... Will my EPIC-M now be obsolete? Do I need to upgrade the chip? How long will that take? Is the X coming out along with the Scarlet (probably).... Damn.... Damn.... Damn.... Damn.... Though there is something nice about owning an original M Model, which wont exist soon.
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that's the funny thing about chasing the newest equipment - there's no destination or contentment . . . always a newer shiny thing just around the corner. The Epic-M you have is now old and obsolete and must be sold to me at a steep discount to make way for the new new

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCggX032-5g

The things a crow puts in its nest
They're always things it finds that shine
And how he'll find a shiny dime
Silver twine, from a valentine

The crows all bring them shiny things
Leave me alone you big ol' moon
The light you cast is just a lighter.
You're like the crow, ''cause if it goes
You're dressed to go, you guessed, I know
You'll always bring them shiny things.

Well I'm not dancing here tonight
But things are bound to turn around
The only thing I want that shines
Is to be king there in your eyes
To be your only shiny thing.

​
 
Its seems if they release a 2/3 it will be fixed only and S35 interchangeable lenses. we know for sure there will be a scarlet that cause use the current lenses this have been shown from the start. My guess is the Brain will be a little more the double the initial price so prolly around 6-8k and be a 4.5k camera like the red and around 6k for fixed
 
Jannard said:
Scarlet is now a professional camera. It will be more expensive.
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Aside from his purposely cryptic posts, I think we sometimes forget that Jim doesn't always use the best choice of words.

The word "now" has a lot of people saying,"What was I ready to spend $6K on 24 hrs. ago? I thought Scarlet was plenty professional as it was." It depends on what he means by the term professional.

Is he talking about camera features, the people the camera is for or both? If he means features then "now has more professional features" is probably better wording.

If he's talking about people then "now strictly a professional's camera" may have been better wording. In other words...3K for $3K was attractive to a lot of people who don't understand and appreciate the difference between what RED offers in the way of performance and what HDSLRs provide. Many continue to believe they're getting the best of both worlds (stills & motion) for $2,500 or less. Jim may feel those people can't seriously be considered professionals even if they do make money at shooting because they lack a fundamental understanding of the tool. RED will never be able to please the guy who thinks his 5D MK II is on par with an Epic. Given RED's philosophy and standards, it would be difficult to compete in that space when a cheaper price (for crippled technology) is what seems to drive that market. Yesterday, I read someone ragging on the FS100 (~$5K and superior motion specs) compared to the price of HDSLRs.

As for "more expensive" - compared to what and by how much? Most of us are assuming he means the $6K price and, as Lliam pointed out, more could mean as little as $1K.

The people who are concerned about the price are understandably worried they were essentially put through a three year long "bait and switch", unintentional as it may have been.

Given all of the hoopla from Jim and an in-person announcement event at RED Studios, I'm holding out hope we'll all be pleasantly surprised come Thursday.
 
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AndreeMarkefors said:
He said professional CINEMA camera.

1080p isn't where that's at.
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don't want to be a troll, but I quite enjoyed watching the movie "Drive", and wouldn't call it non-professional just because of the resolution.
Of course, if it would've been shot on RED, it would be crisper, sharper.

But you see, the story is simple as stating Epic and MX has more resolution than the Alexa, and the DSLR's. Thats true, period.
But can we do it without bashing the other side (and all the people behind these cameras)?
 
Sergio Perez said:
I expect professional to be, in Red terms, at least 4K.
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Resolution has nothing at all to do with professionality (is that even a word?). A "professional" device, in the mind of most professional shooters that I know, is one with an expected level of ergonomics, reliability, capability, flexibility, and ruggedness, as well as compatibility with other "professional" equipment, which implies certain industry standard connections. If resolution is part of the requirement, that would mean that you don't consider an Alexa, an F35, or a Genesis "professional." If that's the case, you're at odds with the vast majority of the "professional" industry.

Personally, I'm kind of hoping that if everything Red is going to make is "professional" that they can finally stop slapping the word "Professional" on all of the logos, because frankly to many in the industry that's a sign they're trying much too hard to be taken as such - when in fact, they already are.
 
Edward Saltau said:
Jim, the problem here is that the previous three years of scarlet build up have all been towards to a camera that those of us currently using DSLRs and HVXs can afford. You were the one who gave us our preconceived notions about this camera. I'm not saying there'll be anything wrong with scarlet. I'm sure it's every bit as amazing as you're claiming it to be. I'm sure I'll want one. I'm sure millions will want one. But I'm also pretty sure plenty of people will be pissed because they can't afford one. It doesn't matter how good it is, if it's over 10K then most of the people who've been following scarlet wont be able to get one. Which is a shame because you've been teasing the sub 10K crowd pretty bad for a long time now. And we don't want to go to canon because you convinced us raw, and hi res and all sorts of things 3 years ago. Everything since then has just been to tie us over till scarlet. Which you told us we could afford...
I'm sure it's amazing and I hope I can buy one.
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+ another 1
 
Andy Roberts said:
And secondly, I'm not talented enough to shoot without RAW. I'm not smart enough to make all the decisions about color temperature and contrast, etc. at the point of capture. RAW affords me the elbow room to be an amateur and to grow to be better at my craft. DSMC is REVOLUTIONARY. RAW motion is REVOLUTIONARY. And I don't know of any RAW DSMCs other than Red. To make the kind of art that I want to do requires a RAW DSMC. Like Picasso, I suppose I could still be artistic if all I had to paint with was blue, but the art the I want to make isn't blue... it's RED. :biggrin:
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Andy, be very careful with this approach. I've seen it get some people in trouble with RAW workflows. I believe the attitude needs to be, get it right at the shoot and if you change your mind about color temperature, an exposure adjustment, etc later on you have the flexibility of RAW. But RAW doesn't really mean you can wing it on set. For example, when lighting you are best served to find your white balance at the point of capture so you know if you need to make any adjustments to the lights, perhaps gelling, changing bulbs, etc. Same with exposure. It's much cleaner to nail it on set when you can still make actual lighting adjustments rather than fiddling with post technique which could still get you in trouble, even with RAW. RAW doesn't equate to less care. It just means having some room to play if you change your mind.

The best footage I have seen from RED cameras has been with DPs who can light the heck out of a scene. That's always been true for every camera that has ever been made. Without good lighting, without knowledge of color temperature, without knowledge of grain structure, etc. you have to rely on luck. I am in constant awe of DPs who can light really well because they always make my camera look a thousand times better than I can make it look on my own. So, I'm constantly learning, trying to get it right at point of capture. If you go in with that attitude, you will be fine.
 
Michael Dalton said:
Sorry just made the reference to prove Canon, Sony and other will always hack a camera together that is full of compromises to work with existing technology. They won't create something from the ground floor up to give people what they want. I don't think they want the pro market, they want the mass market, and you can hear a lot of whining on price here to know that there is a market.
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You obviously haven't heard of the F65. :sneaky2:
 
There's a shitload of videos out there where Ted has been repeating the "6,000$, give or take", "6,000$, give or take", "6,000$, give or take" price range at various trade shows and presentations. Some redusers (whose work I really like, such as Ketch) have even had the chance to fiddle around with what seemed like several pretty functional Scarlets.

Now I don't know where in the mill the 3k for 3k rumour started, but it's pretty ludicrous imho. Yet, like all unreasonable rumours (that Apple fanbois are especially accustomed to) this one has spread like herpes simplex on a porn set.

So I understand Jim's exasperation when he writes:

Jannard said:
"Why not 28K at 1000fps RAW in a raisin box for $800?"
...The misguided expectations for Scarlet are killing me.
You should expect a lot from us. But within reason. Really.
Measure us against our competitors... not your fantasies.
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That being said, it seems with this thread that the speculation pendulum (dare I call it the Red speculum?) has swung total opposite with 10k+ numbers floating about.

Unless there have been MASSIVE changes to the Scarlet since Ted's presentations, I'd personally be very surprised if the price range got anywhere above 30% Ted's 6k mark. That means 7800.00, not 12k.

Then again, we'll all know on 11/03.
 
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Luc Bouvrette said:
Now I don't know where in the mill the 3k for 3k rumour started, but it's pretty ludicrous imho. Yet, like all unreasonable rumours
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It was never a rumor. It was Red's own advertising in the announcement of the original Scarlet 3 NAB's ago.
 
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