Scarlet preview...

[Wayne Morellini]

Forgot to mention to Andree. That often development might be done with a small number of prototyoe chips, and the preexisting setup could have been upgraded to a higher Res and larger size sensor (apart from the possibility of multiple different test camera platforms being developed at the same time ). So just because we have seen lots of 3k it is not necessarily that is the finale product.

 

[Ryan Farnes]

Any "cinematographer" who chooses a 1080p camera camera at this time needs their head examined.

Agreed. This dude David Mullen keeps posting at ScarletUser. What an amateur!

Currently on my current TV series (shot on the Alexa)

Jokes aside, this seems to encapsulate a lot of the rancor here at RedUser. A lot of people, Jim included, discuss cameras and mastering resolution in a forward thinking cinema paradigm. The rest of us are thinking present day broadcast, which is a 1080p world, and thus defines our paradigm. There is all this back and forth over meaningless paradigm differences.

EDIT:
As a pre-emptive rebuttal, please point me to a 4K cinema near my home in this zip code: 22043. (actually, there may be one, I have no idea how to find out) Tell me which Best Buy I can buy a 4K television at, and then whether Comcast or DirecTV will offer 4K first. I'll be upgrading my monitor at home as well, and my budget is around $700, but I want it to be 4K. I've got to watch my YouTube and Vimeo clips in 4K, so please expedite product recommendations with links. Thanks.

OH! And if you have projects that you're mastering to 4K because you know the money for that project is in the future, get in touch with me. I want to invest in your project. I know it won't make money now, the money is in its 4K re-release and syndication. I'm going to make a fortune ignoring the present and invest in the future! The future is 4K dummies. The present is dead.

 

[Liam Hall]

Any "cinematographer" who chooses a 1080p camera camera at this time needs their head examined.

For cinema I agree, but it will be some time before the 4K+ revolution impacts on the rest of the market. My guess is that over 90% of Epic production is destined for 1080p delivery.That will no doubt change, but change will be slow.

 

[Ryan Farnes]

$3000 --> $3750 --> $4750 --> [EDIT: $5750 (HDRx)] --> "Around $6000" --> It will be more expensive.

Ah! Shows what I know. Even more...

Glad I didn't show up at the start of the dance. Whew.

 

[Max Kaiser]

I for one am just stoked to have an all RED shop, big and small cameras all pumping out the same kind of footage. dSLR has been wonderful for travelling (easy to sneak into mean countries), and many other things, but it's usability is tough (pushing all those little buttons, no good monitoring, the list goes on), and it blows using two different codecs all the time, etc.

Can't wait to get my little bro for our new Epic.

Max

 

[Tom Greenberg]

Here's a real kicker for all you 1080p evangelists.... 4K is just a stepping stone too. It will one day be replaced with something bigger and better. All the 1080p is "professional" or "good enough" crowd can go sit on the bench with the same jackasses who tried to tell everyone that 30MB hard drives were more than we'd ever need.

Or as Bill Gates may have said in 1981, "640K of RAM ought to be enough for anybody". Now I know he denies saying that now, but it reflects the thinking at the time.

I remember when a 1 GB hard drive was gigantic, when 1 MB of RAM in a computer was incredible, when monitors could only display 256 colors and we were happy to have that many. Time and technology march on...we can only run to keep up...today's "standard" is tomorrow's obsolete format...remember U-Matic, Hi-8, S-VHS, Beta SP, D1, D3, D5, DigiBeta, and the list goes on and on. 1080p is the latest mile marker on the road...and it will soon only be visible in the rear view mirror.

 

[M Most]

Any "cinematographer" who chooses a 1080p camera camera at this time needs their head examined. There is no good reason, other than minimally-select artistic purposes, to do so. Tablets and compact notebooks/ultrabooks will all be greater than 1080p this next year. Consumer HDTV's are going quad-HD/4K, so are consumer projectors and desktop displays. It's only a matter of another year or two before 2/3" format "broadcast" cameras hit the quad-HD mark to keep up with the new displays and ATSC format standards.

YouTube supports frickin' 4K... Vimeo is working on it.

I guess you must consider just about every cinematographer currently shooting a television show some kind of mentally challenged person. Because at this point in time, Alexa absolutely owns the network/high end cable television production market. Now, will this change? Yes, probably this coming pilot season, when the F65 and Red's newer entries are more available. And Arri will, of course, update the current Alexa at some point. But what has always confounded me is the attitude here that fearmongering is the way to effect change. It's constantly pointed out that "the future" means higher resolution, and therefore anything you do at a lower resolution is going to be worthless, so you're wasting your time shooting with it. It's always noted that somehow only material originated in 4K or higher has any future worth, conveniently overlooking the fact that much of what is shot has no future worth anyway because it's just not very good, regardless of resolution. It seems to me that a more positive message would bring much more immediate results. Pointing out how higher resolution images produce better matte extractions, for instance. Or how higher resolutions allow for more flexibility in framing for distribution formats that are of a lower resolution. Or how higher resolution images can withstand higher compression ratios, making it easier to achieve better results in less storage space. Or how higher resolution minimizes aliasing effects such as moire. I rarely see these things pointed out, but they're much more significant and appealing than the negative message of "if you shoot 1080 you're an idiot and you'll be sorry 10 years from now" does.

Here's a real kicker for all you 1080p evangelists....

This is RedUser. You're preaching to a choir. There aren't any "1080p evangelists" here. If you want to get a message to those who do feel that way, this is probably the wrong place to post it.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Thanks for the 7D bashing. It's the only camera I can actually afford that lets me create the images I want to create, so cheers for the derogatory post

Would you like my address? Then you can come and dance around in front of my flat with your Red ONE, Scarlet and EPIC

And Juggling them too guys

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I really think people forget others have different economic situations. I wish I had the money for an Epic or R1. But I don't. Hopefully Scarlet will fit the bill. For some it will, others it won't. Others will get by with whatever means necessary. While Jeff's post is funny, in a way it's a downer. My 7D was the only thing I could afford when I got medically discharged from the military. It's gotten me to the point where I can probably afford a Scarlet. We all know it's not the best Camera, but if shot right it can serve a great purpose and work for some.

We all love the same thing, some of us just haven't gotten to the levels of some members on this board.

 

[Andrew Huse]

I've learned to keep my mouth shut on REDUSER when discussions get ugly like this. But it's so much fun to watch

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I've learned to keep my mouth shut on REDUSER when discussions get ugly like this. But it's so much fun to watch

Words of wisdom. I'll be taking from here on.

 

[James Brundige]

The future is the that which we can never attain because it constantly moves forward at a speed at which we can never reach, and at a cost that has no relation to the present.

Best post of thread!! actual lol

 

[Luc Bouvrette]

Best post of thread!! actual lol

+ 1

 

[sergio arguello]

I guess you must consider just about every cinematographer currently shooting a television show some kind of mentally challenged person. Because at this point in time, Alexa absolutely owns the network/high end cable television production market. Now, will this change? Yes, probably this coming pilot season, when the F65 and Red's newer entries are more available. And Arri will, of course, update the current Alexa at some point. But what has always confounded me is the attitude here that fearmongering is the way to effect change. It's constantly pointed out that "the future" means higher resolution, and therefore anything you do at a lower resolution is going to be worthless, so you're wasting your time shooting with it. It's always noted that somehow only material originated in 4K or higher has any future worth, conveniently overlooking the fact that much of what is shot has no future worth anyway because it's just not very good, regardless of resolution. It seems to me that a more positive message would bring much more immediate results. Pointing out how higher resolution images produce better matte extractions, for instance. Or how higher resolutions allow for more flexibility in framing for distribution formats that are of a lower resolution. Or how higher resolution images can withstand higher compression ratios, making it easier to achieve better results in less storage space. Or how higher resolution minimizes aliasing effects such as moire. I rarely see these things pointed out, but they're much more significant and appealing than the negative message of "if you shoot 1080 you're an idiot and you'll be sorry 10 years from now" does.




This is RedUser. You're preaching to a choir. There aren't any "1080p evangelists" here. If you want to get a message to those who do feel that way, this is probably the wrong place to post it.

mike,

with all due respect, If you think the DP's on those TV shows are in prepro meeting demanding to shoot 1080p then i dont believe your quite in touch with the process. Its mandated by Exec's and line producers. Im sure if
they were offered to go back to Film (even 16mm) they would be elated. Its about cost per episode!! So as always your argument feels smeared with anti-red and more so pro Arri undertones. Again i have respect for you
and your keen knowledge of te technical aspects to the current digital workflows, so take this as just how it appears to a reader of your posts.

idiot by definition- someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.perhaps sometimes acting not on their own accord...

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I agree, it appears most likely it's still the same 2/3-inch 3K camera. But you ignore the possibility of parallel development of an as-yet unannounced 4K APS-C model.

I'm actually not ignoring that. I'm pretty much weighing all the options.

But I've discarded that scenario due to its utter unlikeliness. But that's my point of view of course.

I outlined my thoughts on this a while back. I don't see the need to find the post and re-state my position.

 

[Steven Hammer]

Yikes! I sure hope the price hasn't gone up too much...

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

...often development might be done with a small number of prototyoe chips, and the preexisting setup could have been upgraded to a higher Res and larger size sensor (apart from the possibility of multiple different test camera platforms being developed at the same time ). So just because we have seen lots of 3k it is not necessarily that is the finale product.

One of RED's criterias for Scarlet is that it is shooting ready out of the box. Not only meaning that all the parts are there, but more importantly that it's not running on beta firmware (if there ever was a RED firmware that isn't beta).

There's also quite a bit of prestige surrounding Scarlet. This camera will be brought up front and center in various tech blogs, magazines and whatnot. I think the whole RED team would really hate Scarlet to take second place to anything within reasonable price range.

I don't think Scarlet has been without frustration on RED's part. There has been VERY little footage over the years; it has been pretty silent all around. I don't think they ever quite reached the right level for them to post anything. Jarred's video is cool, but it's a completely sealed off environment with artificial light. That's hard to relate to.

No, I don't think there has been much time or opportunity to mess around with Scarlet's configurations too much. And I definitely don't think that they've had the luxury to develop many cameras in parallel.

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

Yikes! I sure hope the price hasn't gone up too much...

I suppose "too much" is relative. For many, it's already gone up too much. But that's life, I guess.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

mike,

with all due respect, If you think the DP's on those TV shows are in prepro meeting demanding to shoot 1080p then i dont believe your quite in touch with the process. Its mandated by Exec's and line producers. Im sure if
they were offered to go back to Film (even 16mm) they would be elated. Its about cost per episode!! So as always your argument feels smeared with anti-red and more so pro Arri undertones. Again i have respect for you
and your keen knowledge of te technical aspects to the current digital workflows, so take this as just how it appears to a reader of your posts.

idiot by definition- someone who acts in a self-defeating or significantly counterproductive way.perhaps sometimes acting not on their own accord...

I'm going to defend Mike here because I work with some of these DPs and they choose Alexa because they like how it looks. Guys, I can't stress enough, I love RED, I'm invested in RED, I defend them when appropriate (most of the time they can defend themselves), but I can't overlook the fact that some people just like what Alexa or other cameras give them. Just like some like the look RED gives them. We have to be careful about living in an isolated world because it's not reality. People make choices that go far beyond resolution, and yes sometimes it involves politics but often it also just involves taste. There is enough pie to go around for everyone, if we could just embrace it and not have to make it an Us vs Them, it really becomes a more positive environment, don't you think?

 

[Lawrence Bansbach]

No, I don't think there has been much time or opportunity to mess around with Scarlet's configurations too much.

Really? By Red's own admission (read Jon Sagud's FAQ), Red has been messing around with Scarlet's configurations maybe too much.