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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Dragon Upgrades Begin.

Lliam Worthington said:
Hey Jeffrey,

Yeah I'm struggling with this also. It's a pretty short window now that it's finally been announced. When a Scarlet brain costs $7,950, spending $9,500 for an upgrade to the brain already seemed counter intuitive, though I was considering it, but $12,500 to power up your old brain really doesn't seem to hit a very good price to value ratio.

I appreciate no ones holding a gun to my head, but this is not an announcement I find any excitement in.
I'll probably just hold onto my Scarlet as is as it's a great camera, and continue to rent when I need HFPS, and put the "upgrade" money towards getting a whole new camera in the future, be it an epic dragon or other.
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Ditto
 
It's been over a year to save 9,500. And RED also stated they expect to have all the Scarlet to Scarlet Dragons done by the 1st of Dec. I don't know why people are complaining. Yes it's 3k extra, if you decide to hold off after the 1st of Dec. Remember "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates"
 
Jon Carr said:
It's been over a year to save 9,500. And RED also stated they expect to have all the Scarlet to Scarlet Dragons done by the 1st of Dec. I don't know why people are complaining. Yes it's 3k extra, if you decide to hold off after the 1st of Dec. Remember "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates"
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I think initially it was kind of a surprise, gut reaction. What you say is very true. The more I think about it, the more thankful I am that RED is at least giving us a heads up rather than just making a change.

I think my really only complaint is that you're paying more than a camera body at $12,500. And I guess the drive to the bottom makes me wonder how its going to cost more for a sensor upgrade when everything around us is getting cheaper. It could be similar to the initial Epic X price jump from I think 28K to 34K iirc. But then a year and a half later it got driven down to around $20,000.

I'm not really complaining so much to RED because I have had some time, its more a curiosity as to why it's happening.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
I think initially it was kind of a surprise, gut reaction. What you say is very true. The more I think about it, the more thankful I am that RED is at least giving us a heads up rather than just making a change.

I think my really only complaint is that you're paying more than a camera body at $12,500. And I guess the drive to the bottom makes me wonder how its going to cost more for a sensor upgrade when everything around us is getting cheaper. It could be similar to the initial Epic X price jump from I think 28K to 34K iirc. But then a year and a half later it got driven down to around $20,000.

I'm not really complaining so much to RED because I have had some time, its more a curiosity as to why it's happening.
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True I remember the price drop of the original epic MX and the out rage that happened. It did boost sales at the cost of people who paid full price for it. But as for sensor upgrades, I don't think they will do a price cut on the upgrades due to labor/logistics. If everyone remembers, RED had to hire/train a lot more people for the DRAGON upgrades recently to bang out all the EPICs as quick as they did in the last 3 months. They still charge the same amount if you need to upgrade your REDone M to a MX. So I don't see the upgrades getting cheaper. I do see the dragon getting cheaper in a few years, as technology changes and competition gets more intense. The scarlet dragon upgrade is a hard one to price for dragon, as your basically just keeping the body and side SSD at this point and everything else is ripped put. And a new Scarlet Dragon will only be a 2k price difference. So your just paying 2k extra for new metal body if you bought new instead of upgrading your current camera.
 
An upgrade for the cost of a new body is kind of a crazy thought. It makes a lot more sense to sell your existing camera and buy a new one. You gonna end up spending less money. It was already borderline with the 9.5k
 
Philipe Ratton said:
An upgrade for the cost of a new body is kind of a crazy thought. It makes a lot more sense to sell your existing camera and buy a new one. You gonna end up spending less money. It was already borderline with the 9.5k
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I got a feeling used prices will continue to drop. This makes upgrading a little easier to justify...a little.
 
I think RED is just trying to hustle things along. I'm sure they are looking forward to being done with the upgrade process, so they can focus their efforts on looking into the Dragon future.

It really is a tough call on whether or not to update my paid-off SCARLET body to Dragon - or to choose an EPIC MX, since there is still a decent market demand for MX, or to just skip the upgrade altogether and make my SCARLET a cheaper micro-budget indie rental option and let it keep making money at a more plodding pace, since it already paid for itself and is already profitable, as is....

I don't think even people renting a Scarlet Dragon body will be as thrilled with my grey body Dragon - which will be perceived as not as new and shiny.

The biggest temptation is the swappable OLPF. I love this option.
 
I don't understand why an "upgrade" would raise in price - shouldn't it decrease as the early adoption period ends? Actually, I'm not quite understanding why there is a price change at all... Is it costing more to produce Dragon sensors? The upgrade surge is probably on the down swing at this point so I assume manufacturing costs should also decrease correspondingly. I suppose less upgrades would mean less parts and materials, which could mean a lower bulk purchase discount? I'm grasping at straws here.

This update makes me feel that since I didn't upgrade earlier, choosing to upgrade now would be trying to stave off obsolescence rather than acquiring the best sensor on the market. The part that makes me angry is that this sensor was a long time coming and a lot of people, me being one of them, hopped on to the red bandwagon because of the whole 'obsolescence obsolete" stuff. Then they drop the bomb that it's 63% more expensive (6000 to 9500) - of which Scarlet to Epic dragon upgrades became well over 100% more expensive. Jeez...
 
Just a heads up folks - I have just received my email and confirmed with Joseph at RED that if you do the upgrade right now - it will NOT include the swappable OLPF.
These should start being available next month. So if you want the swappable OLPF design, hold on and let your rep know - they will notify you when it is available to be installed along with your upgrade...

:sifone: Peter
 
I've met more than 2 people by now who tried the dragon and said the difference is not that overwhelming. Yes, it looks a little better but still... is it worth the upgrade price for the Scarlet? Now with the price increase the decision gets much easier and I think it makes no sense upgrading the Scarlet.
 
just got my upgrade email from RED ( scarlet to scarlet dragon)

SO why am i not jumping for joy like i thought i would be?

I truly regret not taking the scarlet to epic route at the begining as i feel i would have benefited more. the scarlet has been a hard sell and so will the scarlet dragon, kind of feel's silly to go down the epic mx route now, possibly not i'm very confused.

How many of you have changed your mind's about this upgrade? ( scarlet to scarlet dragon)
 
Moved from Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon and it was a huge jump. To this day, the best colors and highlights in any camera I've used (and this was the conclusion of my colorist colleague as well). The range is incredible just set the exposure, as you always should.
These are some Scarlet Dragon stills from a commercial I did (using Lomo sphericals):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/falsett/sets/72157647144527098/

Cheers!
/V
 
Vincent Larsson said:
Moved from Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon and it was a huge jump. To this day, the best colors and highlights in any camera I've used (and this was the conclusion of my colorist colleague as well). The range is incredible just set the exposure, as you always should.
These are some Scarlet Dragon stills from a commercial I did (using Lomo sphericals):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/falsett/sets/72157647144527098/

Cheers!
/V
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Looks great! Well done. I'm very excited about my Scarlet Dragon!
 
Christof Paul said:
maybe you missed the FS7 announcement: 4k raw 14 stops DR iso 2000 same chip as F5/F55 and quite a nice package and in no way consumer or prosumer for about 12000$
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He's not the only one. The F5 and F55 have different sensors. So saying the F5/F55 sensor is like saying the "Same sensor as Epic MX/Dragon". That being said, it is a very attractive camera at a very attractive price.
 
I went from Scarlet to Epic to Epic Dragon. Don't regret it. I'm still not understanding how people can't see the difference between the jump from MX. I also have no issues with OPLF2. It's better than the MX in low light and miles better in the highlights. Color is crazy better. But if you can't see the benefits, by all means its not for you. Oh, and thank goodness I don't have to watch footage that have magenta blow outs. How people finish their projects with that still in the final videos is mind blowing.
 
Vincent Larsson said:
Moved from Scarlet to Scarlet Dragon and it was a huge jump. To this day, the best colors and highlights in any camera I've used (and this was the conclusion of my colorist colleague as well). The range is incredible just set the exposure, as you always should.
These are some Scarlet Dragon stills from a commercial I did (using Lomo sphericals):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/falsett/sets/72157647144527098/

Cheers!
/V
Click to expand...

Beatiful shots. Did you just color it or did you start from FilmConvert or some sort of emulation LUT?

BTW super disappointed to look at the EXIF data on this shot haha: https://www.flickr.com/photos/falsett/14962148465/ Even from the thumbnail I thought that looked exactly like film. :P
 
Sounds like you got it sorted captain:)

some of us were not so clever i'm afraid




Bob Gundu said:
I went from Scarlet to Epic to Epic Dragon. Don't regret it. I'm still not understanding how people can't see the difference between the jump from MX. I also have no issues with OPLF2. It's better than the MX in low light and miles better in the highlights. Color is crazy better. But if you can't see the benefits, by all means its not for you. Oh, and thank goodness I don't have to watch footage that have magenta blow outs. How people finish their projects with that still in the final videos is mind blowing.
Click to expand...
 
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