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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet / Canon / Sony frustration

Hi Daniels,

To be honest, I share this frustration. But when I think about it, I would regret selling my Scarlet-X for a Sony FS700.
I have so much more that I need to spend on the scarlet to get some jobs with my Scarlet-X (medias, battery powers),
thinking if I sell it and get an FS700, it would save a lot of money. But do keep in mind, you have a much more
superior camera in function, and reputation. You'll have to spend some bit more to get a fully working camera, but you'll
eventually end up with a camera worth much more in price and function that will eventually benefit you much more.
It's a better investment on RED. :)

Hope that helps!
 
I'm really curious why so many people think that owning the latest and greatest of cameras is necessary for delivering a good piece of cinema?
It really doesn't matter what kind of camera you have nowdays, the picture quality of some of the cheapest DSLRs is good enough for 99% of the people out there.

90% can't even tell the difference between a properly processed, well lit DSLR video or cinema grade camera (in 1080p)
95% doesn't even care. Hell, most people are willing to put up with youtube's video quality as long as the content's quality is high enough!

Unless you frequently need high FPS shots, why don't you rent an Epic or Phantom when you really need it?
 
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Steven Veldkamp said:
I'm really curious why so many people think that owning the latest and greatest of cameras is necessary for delivering a good piece of cinema?
It really doesn't matter what kind of camera you have nowdays, the picture quality of some of the cheapest DSLRs is good enough for 99% of the people out there.

90% can't even tell the difference between a properly processed, well lit DSLR video or cinema grade camera (in 1080p)
95% doesn't even care. Hell, most people are willing to put up with youtube's video quality as long as the content's quality is high enough!

Unless you frequently need high FPS shots, why don't you hire an Epic or Phantom when you really need it?
Click to expand...

I understand your point of view, but as an artist, I care for my own work and detail even though the mass does not appreciate it. A
painter can choose to use cheap acrylic paint and get close results to oil paint if they chooses to, but artists who cares about their work, cares
for their medium, and their result even at the tiniest details. There are different kind of filmmakers. Some may only care about story telling,
some cares about the tiniest detail in cinematography. Attention to detail is extremely important, especially for clients who are also filmmakers
who apparently also care about the tiniest details and pulling out the best quality in their art piece.
 
Look at the Alexa... It's 90,000 and it's nowhere near what the Scarlet is.

Right now the Scarlet is the best camera in it's price range out there.

All other cameras are just rumors as of now. And while people like Canon and Sony are displaying their new 4k devices at NAB, RED will hopefully be displaying Dragon and showing people what it's really all about.

Let's remember that the Red One shot at 4k 6 years ago....... The Canon and Sony's are just now catching up, only to be left behind again.
 
I'm in pre production on my upcoming feature. Just spent the night shooting some fight scene choreography and tests. I LOVE this camera. It's absolutely incredible. I remember spending 4K on rentals to shoot one of my first shorts on DVC pro. That was about ten years ago. The results, after a depressing attempt at colour grading, with a professional colourist, still, to be frank, sucked ass. It was crushing, I wanted my work to reflect the immense amount of art direction that went into it. I wanted it to look as good as film, and it was just so far off the mark.

Five years ago, I finally got to shoot on 35mm. The digital work flow today is so ludicrously superior, but boy those images were beautiful. I remember watching my first telecines, and I was completely in love.

Fast forward to 7 months ago... After a desperately hard time with several larger projects falling over... I've at least managed to get a micro budget feature going and I'm looking at shooting/buying an Fs100 or AF100, considering how i might be able to stretch to an F3, dreaming of a RED one.

Then after years of waiting, watching, hoping... the scarlet is finally announced. I am GIDDY with excitement. It promises to be revolutionary. And it is.

I can't overstate how much it meant to me to be looking at my monitor in my tiny little home office, with footage I had shot only moments before, looking at the way the high lights rolled off the CU's I'd just shot and I was just so happy. It looked like film. Maybe not quite as much DR, but cleaner and still so beautiful without even any correction. I just kept replaying it, and repeating, like some sort of stupid mantra, it's like film, it's like film, it' just co cinematic, it's like film... Felt like I was rewriting the end of True Romance.

And then I started pushing the images around in post and playing with some VFX...

And I was now in absolutely no doubt. A brave new world was born for this independent film maker. I will make many films with this camera. And it is upgradeable. Just F***ing incredible.

I want faster frame rates also it's true, I'm sure we'll get them, at the least to the level promised specs and almost certainly with the new sensor upgrade. But right now I have a 4K Digital Cinema Camera to make movies and shoot 5 K stills with, and 60P that still looks better than the Canon MD3's.

There are so many things I have found frustrating and extremely difficult in my film journey so far. But the Scarlet is anything but one of them. You seem like a nice guy Daniel, but imo, you sound like your being hypnotised by the endless tech race. I would humbly offer that a paradigm shift with a new focus on the work you are passionate about creating, and see if setting your Scarlet to the task doesn't make you find just how smart a choice you made. RED will prove to be one hell of a smart choice I think.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
I think the direct opposite... Red announced epic and scarlet for quite a while ago and have had delays, now it's here now the other players are announcing this and that and they still are shooting way far under the target.

The other players will have delays aswell...
The other players does not care for you... they do not care if your camera is not compatible with the next generation... infact they seem to find joy in changing every part from charger to mounts in every generation to make you buy new stuff... red gave their customrers you Stage 3. When did oyu get a stage 3 option for your canon EOS camera...????? or sony smartphone?
Dragon is anouced red is quite quiet... do you think they will be all quiet and then deliver under the target or do you think they do it the red way and call out the unbelievable super spec during NAB...? My guess is that it will be like when scarlet was anounced... everyone was hoping for a good 2/3 sensor... red dlivered a 5k still 4k same as epic sensor... Some people got upset about the price, but now seeing all other cameras hitting the 2k mark and slightly above, I think most scarlet users are a bit happy that their camera in fact is superior to all the other HD and a bit plus cameras... Having more pixels than shooting arri raw with alexa is another sales point...

Sony is bleeding and loosing huge amount of money every day, cutting department after department... Do you think " sony high end cameras for low price deparment" will be one of the first or last to be nuked? I think they will keep doing playstations and tv sets and less 8K in a very near future. It's a big elephant that is running in the wrong direction and their strongest leg... which believe it or not, is tape and tape decks is just as old as film... I guess is that they will do a little better than Kodak but not much....
 
Lliam Worthington said:
I'm in pre production on my upcoming feature. Just spent the night shooting some fight scene choreography and tests. I LOVE this camera. It's absolutely incredible. I remember spending 4K on rentals to shoot one of my first shorts on DVC pro. That was about ten years ago. The results, after a depressing attempt at colour grading, with a professional colourist, still, to be frank, sucked ass. It was crushing, I wanted my work to reflect the immense amount of art direction that went into it. I wanted it to look as good as film, and it was just so far off the mark.

Five years ago, I finally got to shoot on 35mm. The digital work flow today is so ludicrously superior, but boy those images were beautiful. I remember watching my first telecines, and I was completely in love.

Fast forward to 7 months ago... After a desperately hard time with several larger projects falling over... I've at least managed to get a micro budget feature going and I'm looking at shooting/buying an Fs100 or AF100, considering how i might be able to stretch to an F3, dreaming of a RED one.

Then after years of waiting, watching, hoping... the scarlet is finally announced. I am GIDDY with excitement. It promises to be revolutionary. And it is.

I can't overstate how much it meant to me to be looking at my monitor in my tiny little home office, with footage I had shot only moments before, looking at the way the high lights rolled off the CU's I'd just shot and I was just so happy. It looked like film. Maybe not quite as much DR, but cleaner and still so beautiful without even any correction. I just kept replaying it, and repeating, like some sort of stupid mantra, it's like film, it's like film, it' just co cinematic, it's like film... Felt like I was rewriting the end of True Romance.

And then I started pushing the images around in post and playing with some VFX...

And I was now in absolutely no doubt. A brave new world was born for this independent film maker. I will make many films with this camera. And it is upgradeable. Just F***ing incredible.

I want faster frame rates also it's true, I'm sure we'll get them, at the least to the level promised specs and almost certainly with the new sensor upgrade. But right now I have a 4K Digital Cinema Camera to make movies and shoot 5 K stills with, and 60P that still looks better than the Canon MD3's.

There are so many things I have found frustrating and extremely difficult in my film journey so far. But the Scarlet is anything but one of them. You seem like a nice guy Daniel, but imo, you sound like your being hypnotised by the endless tech race. I would humbly offer that a paradigm shift with a new focus on the work you are passionate about creating, and see if setting your Scarlet to the task doesn't make you find just how smart a choice you made. RED will prove to be one hell of a smart choice I think.

Best Wishes

Lliam
Click to expand...

no reply just thought i'd quote it again as it deserves to be read ;)
 
Björn Benckert said:
I think the direct opposite... Red announced epic and scarlet for quite a while ago and have had delays, now it's here now the other players are announcing this and that and they still are shooting way far under the target.

The other players will have delays aswell...
The other players does not care for you... they do not care if your camera is not compatible with the next generation... infact they seem to find joy in changing every part from charger to mounts in every generation to make you buy new stuff... red gave their customrers you Stage 3. When did oyu get a stage 3 option for your canon EOS camera...????? or sony smartphone?
Dragon is anouced red is quite quiet... do you think they will be all quiet and then deliver under the target or do you think they do it the red way and call out the unbelievable super spec during NAB...? My guess is that it will be like when scarlet was anounced... everyone was hoping for a good 2/3 sensor... red dlivered a 5k still 4k same as epic sensor... Some people got upset about the price, but now seeing all other cameras hitting the 2k mark and slightly above, I think most scarlet users are a bit happy that their camera in fact is superior to all the other HD and a bit plus cameras... Having more pixels than shooting arri raw with alexa is another sales point...

Sony is bleeding and loosing huge amount of money every day, cutting department after department... Do you think " sony high end cameras for low price deparment" will be one of the first or last to be nuked? I think they will keep doing playstations and tv sets and less 8K in a very near future. It's a big elephant that is running in the wrong direction and their strongest leg... which believe it or not, is tape and tape decks is just as old as film... I guess is that they will do a little better than Kodak but not much....
Click to expand...

well said, and likely true.
 
This is nothing new.... Imagine artists painting with egg tempera and bam! Oil paints appear on the scene. Now we have oil paint envy!
Bottom line, these are just tools. It's the talent behind & in front of the camera that makes magic. NOT the camera itself.

All the Best!

Dave
 
Björn Benckert said:
The other players does not care for you... they do not care if your camera is not compatible with the next generation... infact they seem to find joy in changing every part from charger to mounts in every generation to make you buy new stuff...
Click to expand...

Wow, and there I was thinking that the Canon C500 will work perfectly with any accessory made for the C300. And you can use EF and PL mount lenses. And they are recording to a standard and encouraging 3d party storage options (which will likely be much cheaper than proprietary RED SSDs).

Björn Benckert said:
Sony is bleeding and loosing huge amount of money every day, cutting department after department... Do you think " sony high end cameras for low price deparment" will be one of the first or last to be nuked? I think they will keep doing playstations and tv sets and less 8K in a very near future. It's a big elephant that is running in the wrong direction and their strongest leg... which believe it or not, is tape and tape decks is just as old as film... I guess is that they will do a little better than Kodak but not much....
Click to expand...

Actually if you read the new president's statements, continuing to push on the imaging front is #1 on his lists of how to save the company.

"Sony is also drawing on its comprehensive strengths in audio and visual technologies to aggressively promote the growth of "4K" technology, which delivers more than four times the resolution of Full HD. Incorporation of Sony-developed technologies, such as image sensors, image processing compression LSIs and high-speed optical transmission modules into its professional-use and high-end consumer products will pave the way for Sony to continue to expand and enrich its 4K-compatible product lineup."

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/12/kaz-hirai-reveals-one-sony-turnaround-strategy-will-cut-10-00/

Sure, Sony may go bankrupt, but I'd bet on them releasing some fun stuff like, say, a high-end consumer-priced DSLR with 4K optical Thunderbolt connection before it dies :)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Canon is offering you a 4K 8-bit MJPEG photo camera with 24fps for 15K. Are you still frustrated about investing in your Scarlet?
 
8-bit is a joke. don't worry, Daniel, you chose wisely.
 
I just forked out the money for a 5D Mark iii and I know I'll have a capable camera for what I intend to do with it for the next several years until I upgrade to a more professional product. If you spend your time worrying about your purchases, you're just adding unnecessary stress to your life. Remember, we're getting to a point where it's not about the camera you're using as much as what you are able to do with it.

Also just saw the 4k DSLR announcement: HA! I'm satisfied with where I'm at right now. I don't have the money for a RED yet..
 
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As much as I think 8-bit is a joke, 8-bit 422 4k in-camera recorded on to inexpensive media (that can be bought at any electronics store) is, in my opinion, a worthwhile trade off. Plus the battery situation and over-the-counter-ness of Canon products is also a definite plus. The other thing is the 1D-C is full-frame, which is kind of a big deal (although no 4k, which means the 1D-C2 will be right around the corner, right). All said, the pricing to me still doesn't make the 1D-C a "clear winner" of a product... $10k would have been better ($5k would have been insane)... $15k, however, is, uumm... well, you can get a Scarlet up and shooting for that price (which is 4k AND RAW), so it's still the better digital cinema option.

The other thing to consider is that line-skipping may still be implemented -- the sensor is 18mp and as far as I can tell they haven't said if the entire thing is supersampled down to 4k (or 1080p) ala F65, or if it line-skips to 4k, or if its s35 crop is actually 4k (aka ~8.3mp centre of the 18mp FF sensor.)

In fact, the only thing the 1D-C does for sure is kill off the C300 market (assuming it's essentially the same as the C300 without XLRs, but with a 4k non-GOP codec.)
 
Scott Crawley said:
Really? Show me how you do that, and tell me what job that set up will be ready to handle.
Click to expand...

Would also like to point out that $15k for the new Canon DSLR doesn't cover any railing either. It's not like "pay $15k and get everything you need." ;) All of those prices are just base prices.
 
The Viper camera in full 4:4:4 filmstream mode is so beautiful to me and has produced some of the best big screen imagery to date.

I get the whole "who has the biggest dick, wins" strategy...It's what keep the testosterone driven male market chomping for the next BIG BIGGER BIGGEST thing, BUT the workarounds and plug-ins and compressions and post production fixes for lousy images doesnt get me even semi-hard.

Sorry, guys..but the best images with the least amount of work-arounds wins..and it aint all about size..its about the way you work the pixels.

See yawl at NAB! :)
 
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