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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and Epic updates...

Who says there won't be a 2/3" sensor in the mix somewhere? There is certainly nothing wrong with 2/3" sensor for a $3k price range camera.
 
Who says there won't be a 2/3" sensor in the mix somewhere? There is certainly nothing wrong with 2/3" sensor for a $3k price range camera.
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With the indications that "the market have changed" weeks after the arrival of the D90 and the announcement of the 5D Mark II, we have many reasons to believe that it is very probable that Scarlet is going to merge with the DSMC. If that happens, in order to remain competitive in the DSLR market, Scarlet will have to have an increase in sensor size, so it can share optics, or at least FOV characteristics with DSLRs.

There's also a possibility that interchangeable lenses might come back to the equation, and with the intended merge with DLSRs, there's a good chance a Nikon mount would be standard, or at least an option.

Jim kept saying at Scarletuser how people didn't actually want (hard to control autofocus, hard to get focus right) interchangeable lenses or 35mm DOF in a "prosumer-like" camera (I guess the term used in the boards - maybe not by him was "soccer moms"). Nikon D90 sales are saying otherwise, maybe.

What bugs me is that if Jim offers Scarlet, a motion picture camera that can do 24fps in 2K (wich is what a Bayer 3K should be good for), and offer a 35mm sized sensor with interchangeable lenses, compatibility with most RED ONE acessories including EVF and maybe drives, it's offering something very close in fuctionality to the RED ONE itself. So we have to wonder what would the another 14,500 (maybe less, since an increase in price seems pretty reasonable) be buying us. A PL mount and some overcranking capabilities? Surely key points to be used by ASC DOPs but not enough to be bought by every independent filmaker or production company out there. And if the top ASC DOPs woud be using EPICs from now on, what would be of the RED ONE?

So it stands the chance that the major announcement would be just the same Scarlet project with better, updated specs. I wouldn't be surprised, since it would be already too much: 3K for less than 3K still sounds pretty awesome, no matter what is the sensor size or if it's got a fixed lens. But Jim himself guaranteed he'd blow our minds away. So, I guess this is what would blow my mind away.
 
taubkin said:
With the indications that "the market have changed" weeks after the arrival of the D90 and the announcement of the 5D Mark II, we have many reasons to believe that it is very probable that Scarlet is going to merge with the DSMC. If that happens, in order to remain competitive in the DSLR market, Scarlet will have to have an increase in sensor size, so it can share optics, or at least FOV characteristics with DSLRs.

There's also a possibility that interchangeable lenses might come back to the equation, and with the intended merge with DLSRs, there's a good chance a Nikon mount would be standard, or at least an option.
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I hope you are right !

Small sensors and fixed lenses have been done, I find them boring, not bad-ass in any way. ( also not really something you can call professional, more pro-sumer at best. )

Something like a 5D Mk2, except video-centric, done Red Style would be freaking amazing.

I'm sure we'll see that "DSMC" camera at some point from Red I wonder if that's what's coming on the 13th.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
If the camera is modular, you may well have a choice of sensor size and lens mount. 2/3" w/fixed lens would be just one option.
Not all of us want the compromise of 35mm SLR lenses or the size weight and cost of a fast broad range cine zoom on a compact low cost motion picture camera. For my simple run and gun documentary style shooting, 35mm DOF is a minor consideration. A fast broad range servo zoom on a balanced modest weight chassis is much more important. I don't need or want 35mm still camera functions and the D90 and 5D have no appeal to me as movie cameras compared to the original spec Scarlet.

On the other hand if you are primarily interested in the DSMC thing, you should be able to have it your way too. 35mm sensor and Nikon/Canon mount with still camera style ergonomic attachments.
 
David Rasberry said:
On the other hand if you are primarily interested in the DSMC thing, you should be able to have it your way too. 35mm sensor and Nikon/Canon mount with still camera style ergonomic attachments.
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Yeah, but it's been done before. What would make the DSMC (if it still exists) revolutionary would be the above with super high resolution + a 4/3 solution, and /or a new digital format, ie 6x4.5 or 6x6 mf. Maybe I'm dreaming, but a true 6x4.5 sensor would be sick.
 
kyle.presley said:
Yeah, but it's been done before. What would make the DSMC (if it still exists) revolutionary would be the above with super high resolution + a 4/3 solution, and /or a new digital format, ie 6x4.5 or 6x6 mf. Maybe I'm dreaming, but a true 6x4.5 sensor would be sick.
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Sick, in the nauseating sort of way. What makes the 35mm-format "special" is the impressive variety of lenses available for it, fast and slow, zooms and primes, IS and non-IS, fisheye and rectilinear, tilt-shift and standard, large and small. No other format has that flexibility in its lens systems.
 
taubkin said:
With the indications that "the market have changed" weeks after the arrival of the D90 and the announcement of the 5D Mark II, we have many reasons to believe that it is very probable that Scarlet is going to merge with the DSMC. If that happens, in order to remain competitive in the DSLR market, Scarlet will have to have an increase in sensor size, so it can share optics, or at least FOV characteristics with DSLRs.

There's also a possibility that interchangeable lenses might come back to the equation, and with the intended merge with DLSRs, there's a good chance a Nikon mount would be standard, or at least an option.

Jim kept saying at Scarletuser how people didn't actually want (hard to control autofocus, hard to get focus right) interchangeable lenses or 35mm DOF in a "prosumer-like" camera (I guess the term used in the boards - maybe not by him was "soccer moms"). Nikon D90 sales are saying otherwise, maybe.

What bugs me is that if Jim offers Scarlet, a motion picture camera that can do 24fps in 2K (wich is what a Bayer 3K should be good for), and offer a 35mm sized sensor with interchangeable lenses, compatibility with most RED ONE acessories including EVF and maybe drives, it's offering something very close in fuctionality to the RED ONE itself. So we have to wonder what would the another 14,500 (maybe less, since an increase in price seems pretty reasonable) be buying us. A PL mount and some overcranking capabilities? Surely key points to be used by ASC DOPs but not enough to be bought by every independent filmaker or production company out there. And if the top ASC DOPs woud be using EPICs from now on, what would be of the RED ONE?

So it stands the chance that the major announcement would be just the same Scarlet project with better, updated specs. I wouldn't be surprised, since it would be already too much: 3K for less than 3K still sounds pretty awesome, no matter what is the sensor size or if it's got a fixed lens. But Jim himself guaranteed he'd blow our minds away. So, I guess this is what would blow my mind away.
Click to expand...

With all due respect - Jim has clearly mentioned that the "market has changed" had nothing to do with either Canon or Nikon. He has made that point very clear and as far as i can tell - Jim is not in a habit of lying...

Just my two cents... :)
 
taubkin said:
Jim kept saying at Scarletuser how people didn't actually want (hard to control autofocus, hard to get focus right) interchangeable lenses or 35mm DOF in a "prosumer-like" camera (I guess the term used in the boards - maybe not by him was "soccer moms"). Nikon D90 sales are saying otherwise, maybe.
Click to expand...
That's one interpretation. Or maybe it appeals to people primarily interested in a dSLR that can do reasonably acceptable, nominally HD (720p) video. Despite the nascent micro-4/3 market, it seems most consumers in the dSLR market want the APS-C format, so they aren't really looking for a smaller format anyway. The video's just a bonus.

What bugs me is that if Jim offers Scarlet, a motion picture camera that can do 24fps in 2K (wich is what a Bayer 3K should be good for), and offer a 35mm sized sensor with interchangeable lenses, compatibility with most RED ONE acessories including EVF and maybe drives, it's offering something very close in fuctionality to the RED ONE itself. So we have to wonder what would the another 14,500 (maybe less, since an increase in price seems pretty reasonable) be buying us. A PL mount and some overcranking capabilities?
Click to expand...
I think that Red One's advantage over an s35-sized Scarlet with interchangeable lenses may be less than that. At 120 fps continuous and 180 fps burst, Scarlet -- at least the original Scarlet -- was projected to hold the edge in full-resolution overcranking. Plus it's start-up time is rumored to be 2 seconds versus Red One's 90 (I apologize if my info is out-of-date). Scarlet 1's dynamic range, sensitivity, and read-reset times were all supposed to be better than Red One's presently are. And even though 4k is better in some ways than 3K, it doesn't matter for probably 90% of the projects out there, which end up on DVD or Blu-ray or broadcast TV (compressed and downconverted to 720p or 1080i). A Scarlet will go places that a red One won't, and if it's s35, it'll have the same DOF.
 
I am hoping for a 4/3rds solution too. It makes more sense as a motion picture camera format than as a still format. Sensor size falls neatly in the gap between 2/3" and S35mm, but it can still have a compact form factor and physically much smaller lenses for a given speed and focal length.
 
David Rasberry said:
I am hoping for a 4/3rds solution too. It makes more sense as a motion picture camera format than as a still format. Sensor size falls neatly in the gap between 2/3" and S35mm, but it can still have a compact form factor and physically much smaller lenses for a given speed and focal length.
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Yes, that would seem to be the perfect balance for scarlet - nice selection of compatible fly-by-wire lenses ( 14-35 F2.0 anyone ? ), reasonably large 17.3x12.98mm chip, but would not compete with Epic or R1. With it's short 38.6mm FFD You could always put a PL/EOS/Nikon whatever mount on it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
Jannard said:
We will announce the new Scarlet and Epic programs on Thursday Nov. 13th.

I want to say that no one has any idea how incredible this announcement will be. Call this hype... please. I am quite sure that the announcement will be called a "scam". Should be a lot of fun to hear the reactions. I can't wait.

Jim
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A master in marketing!!!
 
If you all remember well I was suggesting 4/3rds when Jim first time announced Scarlet.

Four/Thirds have amazing collection of lenses and they are all "digital-dedicated capable of drawing out the full performance of digital sensor".

More:

All FourThirds lenses

The best one lens solution for Scarlet:

img_tele14_150_01b.gif

img_tele14_150_02.gif


Featuring a zoom range from 28mm to 300mm, this lens ideally fits for versatile situations. An ED(Extra-low dispersion) lens and 4 aspherical lenses including a 30mm large diameter meniscus lens minimize distortion and peripheral vignetting through the entire zoom range, which is worthy of the name "Leica D" lens developed by Leica Camera AG in collaboration with Panasonic.
The image is stabilized even at 300mm tele end thanks to the effective hand-shake correction by MEGA O.I.S. optical image stabilizer. Auto focusing is smooth and accurate yet silent thanks to the XS(Extra Silent) technology in super sonic wave motor. When mounted on the Panasonic DMC-L10, this lens lets users take advantage of the contrast AF.

sum_sta14_150.jpg

Sample image.
 
Tzedekh said:
I don't see a nice constant-T2.8, 8x, nonbreathing lens in the collection.
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But you get two fastest available zooms (cine or still) at 14-35mm f/2.0 and 35-100mm f/2.0 both from Olympus.
 
Hey all... long time reader, first time poster.
I like the idea of the incorporated lens, I know there is going to be a lot of people using Scarlet in a lot of different ways, but I think they could all benefit from weather sealing, and how much more weather sealed can you get than with an incorporated lens? plus, then RED can design it the way they want.... and that can only be good!

Oh God... bring on the 13th!
 
David Rasberry said:
There would need to be some cine specific zooms developed for it for sure. It is the new kid on the block.
Click to expand...
I guess that was my point. The original Scarlet already had a cine-specific zoom with the specs I cited. A slower 4/3 lens or the necessity of buying and carting around multiple zooms negates much of the advantage of a larger format. If however Red has designed a T2.8 (or faster), constant-T-stop, 8x (or greater) micro-4/3 lens for an interchangeable-lens Scarlet, and the whole shebang (Scarlet plus lens) costs not much more (and preferably less) than $3,000, then I'm all for it. I don't want to see the lens situation for Scarlet to suffer for any length of time just so that we can have a larger imager.
 
I would take the 2/3" Scarlet with the original spec fixed lens over 35mm for the kind of shooting I mostly intend to do. That would be a great camera.

If they could just stick that lens on a 4/3 micro mount and allow shooting with a 2/3" crop on a 4/3" sensor, that could work too.
 
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