Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet and Dragon...

Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Would multiple upgrades from Scarlett to Epic to Dragon REALLY bring prices down? I'd argue not. I'd argue the whole upgrade process probably costs Red more money in the long run. They still need to buy those hardware pieces, and swap them out with the ones you have now. So there are not any savings on hardware, on top of that, I have a feeling it would cost Red more money because of time and money factor. Surely making an Epic on the assembly line requires less attention from technicians and/or time than receiving your shipped Scarlett, opening it up, cleaning it out, removing the old hardware, installing the new, running diagnostics, and etc. Now if they did that multiple times for you, because instead of buying an Epic or Dragon, you upgrade through the several intermediary upgrade paths, as you suggest, they are now doing this to your camera multiple times.

Trust me, it's probably less expensive for them to just have you buy a factory line Dragon, than to upgrade your Scarlett with new sensors, processors, and other hard ware over multiple upgrade sessions.

I do feel for people who can't afford an Epic or Dragon, but that does not mean you are owed anything.
Click to expand...

The Scarlet was founded upon parts of the Epic that wasn't good enough, these components will most likely not be part of the Epic Dragon, and people will be turning them in, thus making them available.

Frankly I don't care that it's "probably less expensive for them to just have you buy a factory line Dragon, than to upgrade your Scarlet with new sensors" Red choose to make upgrades part of their identity, not me. Maybe there's a reason why other companies don't do this.
 
tbh I bought a Scarlet with a view to upgrading to Epic. At my price point I could care less about Dragon. Sadly it's not even vaguely on the horizon for where I'm at. Offer Scarlet owners an inexpensive Epic upgrade (even with 'battle tested' components) however and I think you'd have the undying love and support of every Scarlet owner out there.
 
Ben Scott said:
tbh I bought a Scarlet with a view to upgrading to Epic. At my price point I could care less about Dragon. Sadly it's not even vaguely on the horizon for where I'm at. Offer Scarlet owners an inexpensive Epic upgrade (even with 'battle tested' components) however and I think you'd have the undying love and support of every Scarlet owner out there.
Click to expand...

And it seems to me, from reading Jannard's posts, that that is exactly what they are offering. I've seen no indication yet that Dragon will become compulsory with Epic. So you'll have the choice of either staying with Scarlet as-is (with continuing firmware upgrades), trading up to a 5k Epic or trading up-up to a 6k Dragon Epic. And, of course, in a year or so, snaffing one of those BT Scarlets that will be the result of the trade-in program.

Some people want the Scarlet to be everything to everyone. They complain they didn't get 3k for $3k and then complain they're not getting 6k for (enter sum here). No other camera manufacturer even considers the upgrade programs Red offers. Did Canon offer to refund the money you spent on a 550D when you buy a 5D mkIII? C300 to C500 perhaps? Can you give Sony back your FS100 and pay the difference on an FS700? Or from an FS700 to a F5?
 
Cédric Laty said:
The big question for me is : Can we hope for a firmware with ANA mode and 120FPS @ 4k ?
i hope
Click to expand...
A firmware upgrade for 120fps at 4k? Did you mean 2K. The Epic does 120fps at 4k....I don't think that'll be something that you should even expect on the Scarlet. 4K 48 perhaps sure, thats half way reasonable. 120 though?
 
... it would seem like Scarlet was the biggest mistake Red ever made.
Click to expand...

People need to chill out and see what actually happens before making silly, melodramatic comments like this. :huh:
 
Peter Osinski said:
I don't know what everyone is complaining about. ANY other company would have released the epic and scarlet and then when the dragon sensor came out would have said "ok now we have this brand new camera come pay full price for it."

To put it in perspective, imagine if sony had said they would take fs700's back and you could put them towards the purchase of an f5 or f55? People would shit their pants. The only reason people aren't ok with this is its RED and they expect too much
Click to expand...
+200,000,000,000,000,000.67
 
Shane Betts said:
Some people want the Scarlet to be everything to everyone. They complain they didn't get 3k for $3k and then complain they're not getting 6k for (enter sum here). No other camera manufacturer even considers the upgrade programs Red offers. Did Canon offer to refund the money you spent on a 550D when you buy a 5D mkIII? C300 to C500 perhaps? Can you give Sony back your FS100 and pay the difference on an FS700? Or from an FS700 to a F5?
Click to expand...

agreed.
Nobody in the camera industry has backed-up OR offered an upgrade path like RED has. I paid Full Pop for my Scarlet and have never looked back. Best camera from the Best company for me. No fine print. No BS. Thank you JJ, JL and RED.

Stu Aull
SX 199
Alaska
 
Shane Betts said:
And it seems to me, from reading Jannard's posts, that that is exactly what they are offering. I've seen no indication yet that Dragon will become compulsory with Epic. So you'll have the choice of either staying with Scarlet as-is (with continuing firmware upgrades), trading up to a 5k Epic or trading up-up to a 6k Dragon Epic. And, of course, in a year or so, snaffing one of those BT Scarlets that will be the result of the trade-in program.

Some people want the Scarlet to be everything to everyone. They complain they didn't get 3k for $3k and then complain they're not getting 6k for (enter sum here). No other camera manufacturer even considers the upgrade programs Red offers. Did Canon offer to refund the money you spent on a 550D when you buy a 5D mkIII? C300 to C500 perhaps? Can you give Sony back your FS100 and pay the difference on an FS700? Or from an FS700 to a F5?
Click to expand...

Well if that is the case then that would be fantastic.

I wasn't complaining about anything. Just saying what my intentions were when I invested, based on the fact that an upgrade path was built into the Scarlet-X ethos/marketing from day one with Red, and that if a non-Dragon upgrade path was on the table that people would no doubt bite Red's hand off to take them up on it. So your canon/sony comments are fairly specious in this instance. Nobody is asking for something for nothing.
 
You make a good point, some people do want everything for less LoL, but I do understand his point of view as well. I myself just purchased a BT Scarlet X with expectations of an upgrade path from within the camera itself, because Team Red stated that would be our option in the future. I know I'm not complaining because the Dragon news is great, but it does seem like it is the end of the road for the Scarlet X at least from the upgrade aspect of things. I'm a newbie to this whole Team Red experience, so I don't know the history of this company taking care of their customers especially in this situation. I just hope I can afford to upgrade to dragon within their time frame, in order to receive the dragon for whatever this new option will cost. I guess we just have to wait with anticipation from here. It's certainly nice to have options! I can't help but feel a little nervous though.:thumbsup::angry::confused1::hurray::undecided:
 
Yeah, it doesn't feel great to suddenly have a non upgradeable camera.. that was a big selling point. I feel like we needed to see 2k 120fps 3k hdr 25p and possibly a full sensor compressed 2k format.

Im loving 4k, loving raw, really dont need20 stops of DR in reality, im not loosing money by not having a better camera, if anything im loosing out on some nice jobs, by not having a simple 2k prores type option.

cant wait to see some dragon images.
 
I don't think that many Scarlet users will have money to upgrade to Dragon. They bought Scarlet because they didn't have money for EPIC in the first place. Now that EPIC Dragon will not cost 25k$ like it was first planned but more, probably closer to 30k$. I don't see many Scarlet owners paying 20k$ for Dragon update.
 
To be fair to us Scarlet owners, most of us are perfectly happy and you should not paint us with one large brush because a few people have unrealistic expectations. Bottom line is the new Dragon Epic is a game changer and will give me all the tools to tell stories the way I want to. Hard to image I'll need more than twenty stops or more slow motion that will be offered, not to mention fantastic in low light. Until it is available and I can afford the upgrade I will continue to shoot with the great camera I already have as well as my regular HD cams.
 
Brian Pascale said:
To be fair to us Scarlet owners, most of us are perfectly happy and you should not paint us with one large brush because a few people have unrealistic expectations. Bottom line is the new Dragon Epic is a game changer and will give me all the tools to tell stories the way I want to. Hard to image I'll need more than twenty stops or more slow motion that will be offered, not to mention fantastic in low light. Until it is available and I can afford the upgrade I will continue to shoot with the great camera I already have as well as my regular HD cams.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
Why do you guys assume that a newly build EPIC-D-brain will cost the same as a EPIC-X + upgrade? There is no need to pay for a MX-sensor and the old boards when you build a new Dragon based brain. Yes, it will probably cost more, but it doesn't have to be that much more.

But, RED is always good with surprises, so i decided to not try the guessing game on the upgrade-program. For me it's enough to know they're going to offer the fairest solution they can come up with, and doing a trade-in program for Scarlet-Owners to get a EPIC-D is pretty insane.

Can't wait to hear and see more.
 
i'll trade my used scarlet for a new EpicX or to an used EpicX for the price of a new?

Because as far as i could understand this upgrade program , its all about reusing components. is that right?
 
MarcoLomiler said:
i'll trade my used scarlet for a new EpicX or to an used EpicX for the price of a new?
Click to expand...
Yes, it will be a trade-in program, Scarlet-X to new EPIC-D. Crazy guys at RED, still can't believe it. ;)
Nothing has been said about EPIC-X or even battle-tested EPIC-X (interesting idea).

Because as far as i could understand this upgrade program , its all about reusing components. is that right?
Click to expand...
Thats the past, at least for Scarlet. It doesn't make sense anymore, too much has to be replaced, the price for such an upgrade would be higher than what new Scarlet-X costs, comes close to a EPIC-X (or even exceeds that), maybe close to a new EPIC-D-brain too... Maybe it would even cost more than buying a new Scarlet-D-brain (which doesn't exist) AND keeping Scarlet-X.
 
I'm getting the feeling RED may move to selling just one camera again. The best RED has to offer in one camera. Actually 2, including a monochrome version. Which is how they began, and will move back to after the upgrade program. Just my 2 Canadian cents.
 
Looks like the scenario is this; there will be EPIC Dragon and EPIC Dragon Monochrome and that's it. EPIC-X will be discontinued and Scarlet too since like Jim said they want to sell the best they can offer and Scarlet is way less of a camera than a EPIC-X.

Their lower end model went from 3k$ to 30k$ in few years :)

This was pretty much scripted scenario from the get go after the problems and demise of 2/3 Scarlet. If they want to compete on the sub 10k$ market again they must come up with another lower spec sensor and I don't see that happening. Only change is if they keep EPIC-X on the picture and start selling it for lower price after Dragon starts shipping. But to waste time again to develope new sensor for sub 10k$ (sub 5k$ when that sensor would be ready) market... I don't see that happening consireding that in 2 years there will be 4K S35 RAW cameras from all major manufacturers for under 5k$. Huge market with huge ammount of money to be made, but again too much competition and technology is starting to be so cheap that competing on 4K S35 RAW camera market against all other manufacturers doesn't sound like a good idea for RED (again different story if EPIC-X is kept in the mix and pushed under 10k$ at the right time).
 
Guys hold your breath now.

Or bite your tongue :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top