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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Round-tripping with Redcine-X Pro and Premiere Pro CS6

Nik Harper

Nik Harper

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I just recently switched to premiere (last night) from FCP7.
I have everything set up exactly like it is on FCP so i have no trouble using the program.

It's really nice have native support for .R3D's.
What I want to do is edit in Premiere, then color grade in Redcine-X.
Then obviously you cant export your project with a song and audio included in RCX, so I need to send it back to Premiere.

Does any one know how to do this? or do i have to export the .R3D's from RCX?
I was hoping to get the timeline back to Premiere and still have them be .R3D's.


Thanks!
 
Set RCX to save your grade as an RMD file in the same location as the R3D file. Then, in Premiere Pro, right-click the R3D file in the Project Bin, and go to Source Settings. In the upper-right of the Source Settings screen, click "Reload from RMD." Click OK. Your grade will be applied for all instances of that clip in the timeline.
 
Nik

This is possible to a point.

Edit your timeline in CS6 . At any point along the process if you "right click" on any R3D clip in any bin it will open dialogue box with numerous options. Forgive I'm not near my system at the moment but from memory, always dangerous, I think under properties or source it will open RCX within Premier & you can adjust without roundtripping save RMD's etc. etc. Maybe someone can advise which actual menu heading it is.

Now the point bit........ at the moment CS6 doesn't have all the functionality of options RCX does so there is no " Alchemy " etc. So the above workflow will get you there to a point . However RCX really should be considered a 1st light grade anyway isn't it ?
 
I don't understand why people insist on using RCX for grading. Resolve Lite is also free, INFNITELY more powerful and actually designed for color grading. RCX designed for one light grades and it doesn't even have proper tools for comparing two shots in the timeline, while it's also missing tons of high end tools, that absolutely necessary for proper grading.
So, edit in PP, export EDL or XML, import it into Resolve, point to the folder with R3Ds and off you go. With Version 9 you can even render with sound and perform media management.
 
thanks guys.

lots of helpful responses!

Cory your links were perfect thanks a lot.

Jake, I usually don't need more than a light grade.
It depends on what i'm doing but if i'm filming something I try to rely more on the lighting than grading after the fact.
I dont insist on using RCX but i like that it uses the raw files to grade with.
I'll have to check out Resolve, does it use the .R3D's?

Thanks again everyone!
 
Has anyone found an option to export an XML from a Multi-cam edit in PP CS6? (I hope that fits into the theme of this thread.)
 
It's easy to edit in premier and send those cuts over to RCX. They show up as the sequence sent and grade with no problems.

The trouble is coming back to Ppro after a color pass. When the file is exported (send FCP XML to Pr) nothing is shown in the timeline or bin, essentially the files are no where to be found/seen. If Adobe will fix this, Ppro will start to get very popular.

I'll try the saving into the R3D folder and updating the footage, that's a good walk around for small projects.
 
Hey Will,

Are you sre that there isn't a sequence in the Project Window in Premiere? Redcine exports FCP XML files that should work fine in PR? They have for me?
Maybe try again and let me know if you're seeing offline files in PR? Or any other relevant info? This should be working fine.

Wes
 
Karl Soule said:
Set RCX to save your grade as an RMD file in the same location as the R3D file. Then, in Premiere Pro, right-click the R3D file in the Project Bin, and go to Source Settings. In the upper-right of the Source Settings screen, click "Reload from RMD." Click OK. Your grade will be applied for all instances of that clip in the timeline.
Click to expand...

This it probly the most retarded question ever but. WHere do I do that? I couldn't find a save grade.
 
Bryan Moore said:
This it probly the most retarded question ever but. WHere do I do that? I couldn't find a save grade.
Click to expand...

I thought RCX created RMDs automatically... I know that whenever I first work on a r3d, it creates an RMD with the settings I've changed in the same folder as the clip. The problem is, all of the really cool settings that seem to bring the most out of your r3ds (alchemy group, RCX's grain implementation which is, in my opinion, the best and most subtle out there) don't work in Premiere Pro (CS5.5 anyway.) The other thing with grain specifically is that I want to add it last, otherwise all of your corrections will effect the grain structure/colouring. To do that (add RCX grain last) means the last stop should be RCX, however that's impossible because a lot of transitions and text and things that you add in your NLE do NOT translate to RCX (via XML or EDL, which are the only two ways to open a timeline in RCX.)

In my opinion, RCX is great for one-off clips or pulling stills, but trying to use it to colour correct/grade is just nowhere near feasible. On the flip side, the problem with CC applications like Resolve, Speedgrade, etc. is that you can't export as corrected/graded .r3d files, so you're kind of boned when you try to go back to your NLE. On one hand, RCX has some really great and very subtle effects that you can't get anywhere else but you can't do real grading in RCX (secondaries, tracking, vignettes, and so forth). To do the same things in a CC suite requires far more work to achieve similar looks/effects that are adjustable using simple sliders in RCX.

It's a catch 22 and the reason people use DPXs, OpenEXRs, and whatever other formats instead of keeping it .r3d through the entire workflow (which just isn't possible). Currently, I think the best option is to edit in whatever NLE as .r3d and then send to Resolve, hope your edit remains intact, do your colour corrections as .r3d, and then render out to your deliverable via Resolve (if you wanted to send back to your NLE from resolve, you'd have to render to an intermediate format, which is lame.)
 
jake blackstone said:
You can easily add grain in Resolve. It's done as a composite layer. This way you have much more control over the grain size, intensity and areas, that are affected.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, and it's better than most... However there's something I find particularly natural about RCX's grain implementation/look... It's subjective, I know, but still I can't seem to replicate it (definitely not as easily) in other apps. To be fair, I'm fairly new to Resolve and I'm just nitpicking because with RCX it's essentially just "click on" and I'm satisfied with the intensity/size/highlight-to-lowlight grain ratio, etc.
 
Mike P. said:
Yeah, I know, and it's better than most... However there's something I find particularly natural about RCX's grain implementation/look... It's subjective, I know, but still I can't seem to replicate it (definitely not as easily) in other apps. To be fair, I'm fairly new to Resolve and I'm just nitpicking because with RCX it's essentially just "click on" and I'm satisfied with the intensity/size/highlight-to-lowlight grain ratio, etc.
Click to expand...

Well, if you're looking for consumer, "one click" type of adjustment, then you should stick with RCX for color grading. On the other hand, if you're willing to expand your creative vision and experiment a bit, then you can achieve much better results with professional color grading software, like Resolve.
 
Will Keir said:
The trouble is coming back to Ppro after a color pass. When the file is exported (send FCP XML to Pr) nothing is shown in the timeline or bin, essentially the files are no where to be found/seen. If Adobe will fix this, Ppro will start to get very popular.
Click to expand...

Will, this process works fine for many people here. This post is misinformation. Please work through your troubles with us on the other thread where I just provided three workflows that all work.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...nd-REDCINE-X&p=1060734&viewfull=1#post1060734
 
Bryan Moore said:
This it probly the most retarded question ever but. WHere do I do that? I couldn't find a save grade.
Click to expand...

With the clip open in the viewer, click the gear in the top right corner, save rmd.

@Mike P
There is an option in the preferences to enable save RMDs automatically. Fortunately it does not do so unless you turn this on.

Cory
 
jake blackstone said:
Well, if you're looking for consumer, "one click" type of adjustment, then you should stick with RCX for color grading. On the other hand, if you're willing to expand your creative vision and experiment a bit, then you can achieve much better results with professional color grading software, like Resolve.
Click to expand...

Time is money? If it ain't broke don't fix it? Measure twice, cut once? Any other adage that suggests quality, simplicity, and speed are not mutually exclusive... I prefer the way RCX's grain looks and how it's applied compared to most other grain implementations I've used (if it ain't broke). The fact that it looks that good without having to to tweak or experiment is a bonus. No amount of tweaking/experimenting with grain in Resolve could make RCX's grain magically look worse. In other words, the best case scenario is that Resolves grain looks as good as RCX's but requires more time to achieve it compared to RCX (time is money).

As a side note, I'd argue that my creative vision is acute enough that I do not need to experiment to know the results I want to achieve (measure twice, cut once)... And that's something that should be tool independent (regardless of whether the tool is consumer "one-click" or professional).

Alas, all this is moot, as you can not round-trip all that effectively with RCX. My point was simply that it's too bad you can't, because the combination of ease, speed, and awesomeness of RCX's grain (and alchemy group in general) is unmatched by even a "professional" app like Resolve (in accordance to my taste).
 
Mike P. said:
Time is money? If it ain't broke don't fix it? Measure twice, cut once? Any other adage that suggests quality, simplicity, and speed are not mutually exclusive... I prefer the way RCX's grain looks and how it's applied compared to most other grain implementations I've used (if it ain't broke). The fact that it looks that good without having to to tweak or experiment is a bonus. No amount of tweaking/experimenting with grain in Resolve could make RCX's grain magically look worse. In other words, the best case scenario is that Resolves grain looks as good as RCX's but requires more time to achieve it compared to RCX (time is money).

As a side note, I'd argue that my creative vision is acute enough that I do not need to experiment to know the results I want to achieve (measure twice, cut once)... And that's something that should be tool independent (regardless of whether the tool is consumer "one-click" or professional).

Alas, all this is moot, as you can not round-trip all that effectively with RCX. My point was simply that it's too bad you can't, because the combination of ease, speed, and awesomeness of RCX's grain (and alchemy group in general) is unmatched by even a "professional" app like Resolve (in accordance to my taste).
Click to expand...
And my point is, why keep investing time in an inferior product, when a perfectly adequate software exist already, free. If you feel, that "one button" solution is for you, fine. Version 9 of Resolve has a Gallery, which has number of prebuilt looks, similar to Magic Bullet, that you can apply with one button. I'm sure, once Version 9 is out of beta, there will be many more Looks available from fellow users. Frankly, I think, Red should concentrate on making the best camera and stop wasting time on a software, that offers nothing over existing, free offering- Resolve. And don't forget, there are other cameras out there. RCX only works with Red files. Resolve on the other hand is a fully professional color grading software, that majority of filmmakers should invest time in learning, regardless, if they are cinematographers, DITs, colorists, editors etc. Resolve is quickly becoming a Photoshop of today filmmakers...
 
Mike P. said:
Time is money? If it ain't broke don't fix it? Measure twice, cut once? Any other adage that suggests quality, simplicity, and speed are not mutually exclusive... I prefer the way RCX's grain looks and how it's applied compared to most other grain implementations I've used (if it ain't broke). The fact that it looks that good without having to to tweak or experiment is a bonus. No amount of tweaking/experimenting with grain in Resolve could make RCX's grain magically look worse. In other words, the best case scenario is that Resolves grain looks as good as RCX's but requires more time to achieve it compared to RCX (time is money).

As a side note, I'd argue that my creative vision is acute enough that I do not need to experiment to know the results I want to achieve (measure twice, cut once)... And that's something that should be tool independent (regardless of whether the tool is consumer "one-click" or professional).

Alas, all this is moot, as you can not round-trip all that effectively with RCX. My point was simply that it's too bad you can't, because the combination of ease, speed, and awesomeness of RCX's grain (and alchemy group in general) is unmatched by even a "professional" app like Resolve (in accordance to my taste).
Click to expand...

Mike, your point is not moot. See Cory's link above (post #5) it works and now I can round trip with RCX and Premiere!
 
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