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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Roland R-88 got a *massive* price drop! (fierce F8 competition?)

D

David Peterson

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Those are sweet.
 
They are sweet, until you go into the field and it drains the battery dead in two minutes. Its great for in door use.
 
Mike Nagel said:
David, what external battery are you using ?
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Depends on what I'm powering.

For the Tascam DR60D I used a cheap USB powerbank.
For the Tascam DR680 I use the same battery pack as came for my Nebula 4000 Lite gimbal.
For the Sound Devices I use a BP-U60 (same as powers my Sony PMW-F3 as well).
 
Jim Skinner said:
B&H lists as discontinued
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Must have only had very limited stock, and sold out very quickly.

Mike Nagel said:
better look into the new SD Mixpre 3/6 devices...
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Honestly the R88 only makes sense if there is something about it which you specifically need such as the 8x full size XLR outputs, or the digital I/O. And if so, then you're getting an amazing bargain! As nothing else anywhere even value close to its price can offer all that. Which is why I felt it is worth sharing that amazing deal.

However, for most people checking out the sub $1K category of recorders for production work, then the Zoom F4 provides the best value that will suit their needs best (and not an R88):

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-r...various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/
 
the deal was great, but if u don't need 8 inputs then I'd prefer the new SD units.

Re Zoom: All of the Zoom devices I ever tested have worse sound quality than Tascam and SD. There's an audible difference, at least to my ears. I would not use it. considering the prices of the new SD units.
 
Mike Nagel said:
Re Zoom: All of the Zoom devices I ever tested have worse sound quality than Tascam and SD. There's an audible difference, at least to my ears. I would not use it. considering the prices of the new SD units.
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Have you used the F4 or F8 however? As they're a *MASSIVE* leap forward over anything Zoom has ever done before.

I reckon the Zoom F4 is the best bang buck recorder there is in the sub $1K price bracket (yeah the MixPre-10T would be nicer in many cases, but comes at *TRIPLE* the cost!)
 
David Peterson said:
Have you used the F4 or F8 however? As they're a *MASSIVE* leap forward over anything Zoom has ever done before.

I reckon the Zoom F4 is the best bang buck recorder there is in the sub $1K price bracket (yeah the MixPre-10T would be nicer in many cases, but comes at *TRIPLE* the cost!)
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we had a F8 on set, and with the F4 there's many sound samples and comparisons out there... it's the exact same story: SD and Tascam sound better and cleaner... the problem was before the new Mixpre series that SD field recorders were quite pricey...

Mixpre series now have mixers and field recorders in one box (under 1K)... unless there's a insanely important feature that the Zooms have and the Mixpres and Tascam under US$1K are missing, I'd never go with Zoom... and there is no feature that I can see for indy production...

and larger sized productions should use Zaxcom and/or high-end SD anyways...

the point is that I rather lose some workflow optimization on set, but keep the prod sound quality as pristine as possible as that what we'll be working with in post for months... u can't get that back... dialogue quality is very, very, very important

and with the new Mixpres u get pretty much all of that...
 
Mike Nagel said:
we had a F8 on set, and with the F4 there's many sound samples and comparisons out there... it's the exact same story: SD and Tascam sound better and cleaner... the problem was before the new Mixpre series that SD field recorders were quite pricey...
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Were you listening to playback on set through the hp amp or listening to the files later on back in the studio? It is easy to get confused thinking both approach is the same, when they're not.

As most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between well recorded files in a Sound Devices vs a Zoom F4/F8 in a blind test.

Mike Nagel said:
Mixpre series now have mixers and field recorders in one box (under 1K)... unless there's a insanely important feature that the Zooms have and the Mixpres and Tascam under US$1K are missing, I'd never go with Zoom... and there is no feature that I can see for indy production...
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Full size XLR outs, camera return, safety track recording, hirose powering, dual SD card recording, internal time code generator, F control mixing surface, greater track count, and more is just a few of the reasons why I would prefer a Zoom F4/F8 over a MixPre3/MixPre6/DR70D/DR680.
 
David Peterson said:
Were you listening to playback on set through the hp amp or listening to the files later on back in the studio? It is easy to get confused thinking both approach is the same, when they're not.

As most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference between well recorded files in a Sound Devices vs a Zoom F4/F8 in a blind test.
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strongly doubt that. and we evaluated in post.

but your point is exactly another problem, I wanna hear on set what I hear in post...


David Peterson said:
Full size XLR outs, camera return, safety track recording, hirose powering, dual SD card recording, internal time code generator, F control mixing surface, greater track count, and more is just a few of the reasons why I would prefer a Zoom F4/F8 over a MixPre3/MixPre6/DR70D/DR680.
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the dual SD card recording is nice, everything else is not needed for smaller indy flicks as otherwise simply get a Mipre10 or if the production requires all of that get the high-end SD and/or Zaxcom. The sound is better, which is the only thing that counts.

And btw, the SD aren't the ultimate thing either, but Tascam is the minimum entry level sound quality IMO. At least to my ears, YMMV. ;-)
 
Mike Nagel said:
but your point is exactly another problem, I wanna hear on set what I hear in post...
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When you can bring your studio monitors (and room itself!) to set then I will be impressed :-P

Mike Nagel said:
the dual SD card recording is nice, everything else is not needed for smaller indy flicks as otherwise simply get a Mipre10 or if the production requires all of that get the high-end SD and/or Zaxcom. The sound is better, which is the only thing that counts.
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It isn't "all that matters", all those other features (such as dual SD cards) do matter, especially over long/paid shoots. Oh and the MixPre10T is not a sub $1K recorder (although I am considering getting the MixPre10T myself next year, but it costs TRIPLE the price of the F4, and the MixPre10T starts to creep up towards secondhand 633 pricing...), which is what I thought we're discussing:

Mike Nagel said:
(under 1K)
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Mike Nagel said:
under US$1K
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Mike Nagel said:
And btw, the SD aren't the ultimate thing either, but Tascam is the minimum entry level sound quality IMO. At least to my ears, YMMV. ;-)
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I went from Tascam DR680 to Zoom F4, absolutely a move upwards I feel in sound quality.
I also own a Sound Devices 552, yet 95% of the time I'd always grab the F4 instead.
 
David Peterson said:
It isn't "all that matters", all those other features (such as dual SD cards) do matter, especially over long/paid shoots. Oh and the MixPre10T is not a sub $1K recorder (although I am considering getting the MixPre10T myself next year, but it costs TRIPLE the price of the F4, and the MixPre10T starts to creep up towards secondhand 633 pricing...), which is what I thought we're discussing:
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look if the sound quality is good enough for u, it is not for me... but maybe tell that the producers/director and they will set u straight very fast that they want the very best in quality

they don't shoot 70mm because it is more convenient, they hassle with that for one reason only: quality

the difference in perspectives here:

u're a hired dude who tries to get through the day as convenient as possible, they wanna squeeze the very max quality out of everything, because that stays forever in the final piece...

everything else u bring up is great to have but does not trump sound quality, as my cams also don't dual record and we don't loose footage... TC we get from TS, would never use the world clock from a field recorder and constantly jam... idiotic

but since u're buying a SD unit, u're already on the same page... F8 prob has more features than the Mixpre10 so why would u spent the cash on that if not for SD sound quality...... ? ;-))))))
 
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