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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Resolve on PC

Yes True PC all the Way for easiness Of Upgrade and loads of 3rd Party upgrade
 
For the last time, the linux version is 30 times the price of the software OSX version, stop mentioning it. This is about the SAME software on mac and windows.
Thing is also, as I said before, that many use a lot of different softwares on one machine, Linux doesn't function with everything around. People aren't getting Resolve and Resolve Lite for their big grading suite dedicated system, they want it on their editing/post production station/laptop.

One shouldn't confuse the needs and desires of individuals who are trying to get things as cheaply as possible with those of post houses that need to service a wide range of clients and need a degree of stability, reliability, and flexibility that many individuals do not.
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Stabilty reliability and flexibility... well, first take out the "flexibility" part as windows supports a lot more then Mac, then add to the fact that there is nothing that says you can't have a stable and reliable PC workstation. I have had one for years and it is as stable as any Mac out there. This is pure nonsense, OSX may be more amateur friendly but the main reason people used Mac's was because they choose FCP instead of Avid during the recent years.

T
hat's one reason Autodesk chose to go to the Mac only (at least so far) with Smoke
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So what about 3D studio Max? It only has support for bootcamp windows.

There's a reason a lot of post production workers choose windows and PC's if they know how to work with technology. Those who don't choose mac.
This is also the reason why some post production houses choose mac, because a lot of the people they want to hire are mac geeks who only worked in it, with FCP, smoke etc.

I know very few VFX companies who use mac's, they know they can't get what they want out of the closed and limited systems.

Mac and Apple is ALL ABOUT OSX, it's the OS that is fluid, "fun" and fast, the hardware is the same as PCs, or rather most of the time a year after current PC technology.

So come on people, wake up, look outside the Applebox and see technology for what it is. I love both systems based on different things, but I would never choose my powerful workstation to a Mac.
Mac is good on the field, not when doing heavy stuff, that is both my opinion and by benchmarks; facts.
 
Apple can't even get their Gamma settings right guys! Are you seriously suggesting that Mac OS is known for stability, reliability and flexibility?! Scripting is a plus for Mac and Linux?? Ever heard of Python or LUA? They work great on Windows!

I recently jumped ship from OSX to Win7 x64 for my RED work-flow needs and never looked back. I even installed Win7 to my Macs through Boot-camp and rarely even boot them in OSX nowadays. Not even one killer app on it besides RESOLVE for us.

I was always a Microsoft hater but it seems that lately they do everything right as opposed to Apple and it's iAnything-but-proffesional focus. I will definitely buy a RESOLVE suite when it arrives at Win-side.
 
M Most said:
...
One shouldn't confuse the needs and desires of individuals who are trying to get things as cheaply as possible with those of post houses that need to service a wide range of clients and need a degree of stability, reliability, and flexibility that many individuals do not.
Click to expand...

Resovle is $1K. Resovle Lite is $0. This isn't just some bait and switch strategy. BMD is targeting the individual.
 
I second that Miltos. I think most people criticizing Windows today are the apple fans who haven't even tried a windows based system for post production.
I think they are also the same people who say stuff about Avid that isn't true at all because they tried it 10 years ago and not today.
The blindness of these people stuns me and they are serious about post production? It's just technology!!!
I have been waiting to see what Apple will bring forth in terms of hardware and FCP (before FCPX) and I have always been interested in switching to mac and OSX, but all the time I get reminded why I should stay with PC. I would not choose it for field work, I like my Macbook for that, but I will never stand by a certain system just because I'm a fan of it, that's what consumers do.

Remember, we are on a forum that is focused on a camera that was considered a Joke a couple of years ago. How many "fans" of other camera technology mocked Red based on pure prejudice?
Aren't most of the "windows haters" a similar bunch of people?
 
Christoffer Glans said:
...

Remember, we are on a forum that is focused on a camera that was considered a Joke a couple of years ago. How many "fans" of other camera technology mocked Red based on pure prejudice?
Aren't most of the "windows haters" a similar bunch of people?
Click to expand...

They really aren't, IMHO. Microsoft and Windows have always been known as the establishment and Apple and Mac as the cool, maybe less pro but more cutting-edge alternative. Equating Red w/ Microsoft is a stretch.
 
I think he was referring to the Unix scripting that streamlines the workflows for large post houses, which can often get very complicated.

Not to say that Windows is "incapable", it is simply that these post houses have invested heavily in Unix based workflows, software and scripting. They could easily be adapted for Windows.

As to - Why? That is the bigger question. To a lay man, Windows would be the obvious choice for industries dealing with creation of images. Gaming, CAD, CAM, Rapid prototyping, 3D modeling/animation (3ds Max is till date a Windows exclusive. As is SolidWorks from the CAD side.), etc. - completely dominated by Windows.

And once again, it comes down the graphics cards. DirectX 11 is a killer feature and the state of GPU drivers (AMD and NVIDIA) in Windows are in a different league to Unix based OS. Mostly because most of AMD/NVIDIA customers buy graphics card to play games - for which Windows is the only real platform. The GDI itself is far more advanced to Mac OS X which even in 2011 lacks basic features like 10-bit output. Let's consider playback for a moment - EVR renderer is great, but you also have options for incredible renderers like MadVR. MadVR works like magic and it can really transform your viewing experience. I would not even consider watching a video without MadVR. VfW is a flawed container but it does have it's advantages. There is absolutely no reason things like ProRes should be popular when you have fantastic lossless codecs like UT or Lagarith or MSU. And finally, we have AVISynth foundation and its wonderful filters. MCTemporalDenoise simply works far, far better than any commercial denoiser I have tested; Deshaker produced results on par with Warp Stabilizer back in 2005, etc. etc.

So why did Mac OS X get so popular? I sure understand why it is a popular OS - it is a great OS for consumption. Or maybe not, given the gamma hell. It can and needs to co-exist with Windows for a bunch of usage scenarios. But for image creation? I am baffled sometimes. I just at times feel the film post production industry is tied down by Mac OS X and compatibility for the same. I myself started off with FCP and Mac OS X - simply because I was told it was the best solution. Maybe that has something to do with it too? Just like Windows is the "establishment" in most of the computing world, Mac OS X is the establishment in the film industry?

It is clear that Resolve software-only released on Mac first simply because more of the film industry uses Mac OS X than Windows. Objectively, Windows is a much more suitable and powerful OS for what Resolve is trying to achieve - especially with the GPUs.

PS: Consider the fact that the two most popular threads in this forum are "Resolve on PC" and "Resolve on Hackintosh" - both being longer than the Resolve 8 discussion thread. That should say a thing or two about the demand for Resolve on PC - right?
 
Subhadip Sen said:
PS: Consider the fact that the two most popular threads in this forum are "Resolve on PC" and "Resolve on Hackintosh" - both being longer than the Resolve 8 discussion thread. That should say a thing or two about the demand for Resolve on PC - right?
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+1

Dave Blackham said:
Mike is absolutely right. May I respectfully suggest that going down a windows OS based route may not be the best choice of OS. If you don't like or don't want Apple hardware then the Linux version will run on PC boxes very well.if you building a Resolve suite then its likely to be a dedicated box to run the software on plus a few other complimentary apps.
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I would love to read technical explanation for this suggestion..
I can't say such OS is bad or good based on rumors, Why is very important here..
I'm living with five different OSes.. everyone has its cons and pros.. really I can change whenever I like, its not a matter of hate or like, its usability for a specific task..

and I see Windows+gpu+resolve = FTW .. especially for the RED workflow because of many things mentioned in this thread.. yes I can get a 7 PCIe slots board 4 of them will run 16x and the other 3 at 8x, and will suffer less stability issues than a pre-configured mac box.. and will not wait to render like I will on macs.. because I can choose a better hardware than what apple sells, etc, etc, etc.. what I will suffer is spending some more time configuring the system, well, then I can hire people who can do this job right..
whats the point of going the mac route? yeah, yeah, I know its the only one available from BMD today.. we are making this thread trying to change that, IMO..
 
Mohammed El Sharqawy said:
+1



I would love to read technical explanation for this suggestion..
I can't say such OS is bad or good based on rumors, Why is very important here..
I'm living with five different OSes.. everyone has its cons and pros.. really I can change whenever I like, its not a matter of hate or like, its usability for a specific task..
Click to expand...

Respectfully, it sounds like you and a number of other posters here are talking as individuals, running one workstation or a very small number of workstations, in a one or two or three man shop. When the question was asked, it referred to facilities. Facilities in my world are larger entities, and have many workstations, many people, and large shared storage installations. They require a lot of speed and reliability (hence the common use of Linux for the shared storage administration). They compete based not on the workstations and what's running on them, but on the people and the efficiency of the plant as a whole. Efficiency is usually bred by in-house solutions based on shell scripts, scripting languages (such as Python), and directly written proprietary applications that are all designed to automate what individuals usually do either manually or by running commercial apps. Unix and Linux really lend themselves to that environment because they are very lean and very robust as server platforms, very strong in terms of networking and connectivity, and contain an awful lot of command line - and thus scriptable - utilities to do things like file system searches, text file processing, and database queries and manipulation very quickly and efficiently. If you have proper staff on hand to take advantage of that, well, it's a bit difficult for those who haven't worked in that environment to really understand why those that do value it so highly. But they do, and for very good reasons, even if those reasons don't necessarily apply in a smaller shop that is not highly IT savvy.
 
Christoffer Glans said:
For the last time, the linux version is 30 times the price of the software OSX version, stop mentioning it. This is about the SAME software on mac and windows.
Thing is also, as I said before, that many use a lot of different softwares on one machine, Linux doesn't function with everything around. People aren't getting Resolve and Resolve Lite for their big grading suite dedicated system, they want it on their editing/post production station/laptop.

Respectfully, that why we built a resolve on a Mac platform and it works and integrates VERY well. Also its on a dedicated box as it isnt the most easy app to configure. If you building a grading suite it needs a suitable environment for monitoring again which suggests a bespoke suite not a multitasking box.

Christoffer Glans said:
Stabilty reliability and flexibility... well, first take out the "flexibility" part as windows supports a lot more then Mac, then add to the fact that there is nothing that says you can't have a stable and reliable PC workstation. I have had one for years and it is as stable as any Mac out there. This is pure nonsense, OSX may be more amateur friendly but the main reason people used Mac's was because they choose FCP instead of Avid during the recent years.
Click to expand...

Respectfully I disagree on both counts.

Christoffer Glans said:
So what about 3D studio Max? It only has support for bootcamp windows.

There's a reason a lot of post production workers choose windows and PC's if they know how to work with technology. Those who don't choose mac.
This is also the reason why some post production houses choose mac, because a lot of the people they want to hire are mac geeks who only worked in it, with FCP, smoke etc.

I know very few VFX companies who use mac's, they know they can't get what they want out of the closed and limited systems.

Mac and Apple is ALL ABOUT OSX, it's the OS that is fluid, "fun" and fast, the hardware is the same as PCs, or rather most of the time a year after current PC technology.

So come on people, wake up, look outside the Applebox and see technology for what it is. I love both systems based on different things, but I would never choose my powerful workstation to a Mac.
Mac is good on the field, not when doing heavy stuff, that is both my opinion and by benchmarks; facts.
Click to expand...

I think the question here is more the OS, not the hardware. Mike highlighted why, I have my own views too, but at the end of the day, Down near the the bottom windows is near the bottom of the list for of OS of choice in most facilities. Linux and OS X are used for a reason. Im not wanting to jugmental about windows it certainly has its place but I don't think its strong points are in post.
Click to expand...
 
M Most said:
Respectfully, it sounds like you and a number of other posters here are talking as individuals, running one workstation or a very small number of workstations, in a one or two or three man shop. When the question was asked, it referred to facilities. Facilities in my world are larger entities, and have many workstations, many people, and large shared storage installations. They require a lot of speed and reliability (hence the common use of Linux for the shared storage administration). They compete based not on the workstations and what's running on them, but on the people and the efficiency of the plant as a whole. Efficiency is usually bred by in-house solutions based on shell scripts, scripting languages (such as Python), and directly written proprietary applications that are all designed to automate what individuals usually do either manually or by running commercial apps. Unix and Linux really lend themselves to that environment because they are very lean and very robust as server platforms, very strong in terms of networking and connectivity, and contain an awful lot of command line - and thus scriptable - utilities to do things like file system searches, text file processing, and database queries and manipulation very quickly and efficiently. If you have proper staff on hand to take advantage of that, well, it's a bit difficult for those who haven't worked in that environment to really understand why those that do value it so highly. But they do, and for very good reasons, even if those reasons don't necessarily apply in a smaller shop that is not highly IT savvy.
Click to expand...

All of this achievable on Windows. Forget about large post-houses, there are massive engineering corporations that run intricate workflows revolving around CAD applications like SolidWorks (Windows exclusive) or CATIA over networks of tens of thousands of computers and millions of employees. Windows is utterly dominant in the engineering and CAD/CAM. Building Burj Khalifa is an infinitely more complex design process to post-production for a dozen Hollywood blockbusters. Python and particularly the implementation CPython is extremely popular and widely used on Windows.

But I understand what you mean - that the infrastructure and investment is already in place on Unix based OSes. But I don't think it is fair to say that the same couldn't be achieved on Windows.
 
M Most said:
Respectfully, it sounds like you and a number of other posters here are talking as individuals, running one workstation or a very small number of workstations, in a one or two or three man shop.
Click to expand...

And with all due respect, there are a lot more workstations out there that aren't part of a "major post house" that could be running this software. Yes UNIX is great. Windows is also a powerful system. They are different. But if you have a proper staff on hand, it's not going to really matter what you're running anyway, everything will be the same, the IT guys will just have something different to complain about at lunch.

I guarantee blackmagic takes in just as much if not more revenue from these smaller shops and individuals than from the big boys. I'm not sure why you seem to be against a cross-platform decision here... it makes a lot of sense.
 
paulherrin said:
I guarantee blackmagic takes in just as much if not more revenue from these smaller shops and individuals than from the big boys. I'm not sure why you seem to be against a cross-platform decision here... it makes a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

Boy, people here sure seem anxious to put words in my mouth and come up with rather original interpretations of what I say.....

I'm not "for" or "against" anything. I'm not part of Blackmagic and I don't own stock. They are free to do whatever they want. I was just trying to explain why big shops are more Unix/Linux centric because a statement was made that "facilities" would be a source of business for a Windows based DaVinci product. I didn't advocate anything. I explained, based on my perspective that is defined by the part of the market I happen to work in. Why people here have to turn every simple explanation into a technical argument is something that gets mighty tiring....
 
M Most said:
Respectfully, it sounds like you and a number of other posters here are talking as individuals, running one workstation or a very small number of workstations, in a one or two or three man shop. When the question was asked, it referred to facilities. Facilities in my world are larger entities, and have many workstations, many people, and large shared storage installations. They require a lot of speed and reliability (hence the common use of Linux for the shared storage administration). They compete based not on the workstations and what's running on them, but on the people and the efficiency of the plant as a whole. Efficiency is usually bred by in-house solutions based on shell scripts, scripting languages (such as Python), and directly written proprietary applications that are all designed to automate what individuals usually do either manually or by running commercial apps. Unix and Linux really lend themselves to that environment because they are very lean and very robust as server platforms, very strong in terms of networking and connectivity, and contain an awful lot of command line - and thus scriptable - utilities to do things like file system searches, text file processing, and database queries and manipulation very quickly and efficiently. If you have proper staff on hand to take advantage of that, well, it's a bit difficult for those who haven't worked in that environment to really understand why those that do value it so highly. But they do, and for very good reasons, even if those reasons don't necessarily apply in a smaller shop that is not highly IT savvy.
Click to expand...

well, then why autodesk abandoned the sgi camp?
with a software like davinci with the same product style they are providing, I don't see any real advantage to hold on Unix based systems than windows.. what we are trying to say is that with this model of market ($1K for software and have fun choosing your hardware) windows has way more advantages..


M Most said:
Boy, people here sure seem anxious to put words in my mouth and come up with rather original interpretations of what I say.....

I'm not "for" or "against" anything. I'm not part of Blackmagic and I don't own stock. They are free to do whatever they want. I was just trying to explain why big shops are more Unix/Linux centric because a statement was made that "facilities" would be a source of business for a Windows based DaVinci product. I didn't advocate anything. I explained, based on my perspective that is defined by the part of the market I happen to work in. Why people here have to turn every simple explanation into a technical argument is something that gets mighty tiring....
Click to expand...

Mike, that's really the point "facilities" doesn't mean "artists" .. an artist needs a tool to do his work, the simplest form of it will do the job better..
 
M Most said:
Boy, people here sure seem anxious to put words in my mouth and come up with rather original interpretations of what I say.....

I'm not "for" or "against" anything. I'm not part of Blackmagic and I don't own stock. They are free to do whatever they want. I was just trying to explain why big shops are more Unix/Linux centric because a statement was made that "facilities" would be a source of business for a Windows based DaVinci product. I didn't advocate anything. I explained, based on my perspective that is defined by the part of the market I happen to work in. Why people here have to turn every simple explanation into a technical argument is something that gets mighty tiring....
Click to expand...

didn't mean anything by it. just noting that (as you mentioned yourself) your perspective (like everyone's) is limited. and while you make some good points about why many houses rely on a unix/linux framework, i have to ask what that has to do with inquiring about the possibility of a windows version of resolve. perhaps i missed something in the thread, but in any case i certainly didn't mean to speak on anyone's behalf other than my own. my apologies for any misunderstanding.

only point i was trying to make is that there are quite a number of places and people running windows on a professional level that could benefit and would likely purchase a windows version... as others have mentioned, there is a lot of interest in hackintosh systems for resolve, and guess what... that doesn't have much to do with the operating system or it's unix basis. it mostly has to do with hardware and price performance. people are basically trying to take all the good things about building a pc and run osx on it so they can use this software... it's quite an undertaking, and i'm sure it's quite likely every one of them would love to avoid the extreme hassle factor in building and maintaining a high performance hackintosh, and just run this thing on windows... or linux. and obviously, not every individual or company can rationalize or even afford 30 grand to be able to run it. for those reasons alone i think it would be an amazing step to have a windows version, if it made sense for blackmagic to pursue that route. and that's to be taken for what it is, from my perspective. i'm just sayin...
 
But we can't expect better XML-integartion with Resolve now, I'm afraid…
 
The gods have listened..
BMD announced on their website and Twitter that a Windows version is demoing on IBC, and will be released Q1 2012

I have mixed feelings about this. I love my Macs. The Mac platform, and the way they work in general. Windows? Not so much..
However, the amount of GPUs available for Windows make it rather interesting.


Oh, and they lowered the price of the Linux version too.
 
Not only faster GPU's, but more slots on a PC.
 
nice ! any idea on the price of the linux and windows version ? (EDIT: same price as on mac)

But we can't expect better XML-integartion with Resolve now, I'm afraid…
Click to expand...

Dave from Adobe said on an other thread, better integration will still happen.
 
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