Renting out personal Komodo viability and options

[John Pike]

I love my Red Komodo, but I use it for personal artistic projects, not pro production work. As a result it sees a lot of time without use. I've listed it for sale, thinking I'd maybe just get back on the list to get another one, and around that time I'd have another project. However, I would love to just keep it, and rent it out.

I'm wondering what the reality of renting a Red Komodo out is. I'm aware of Share Grid and I rented a Komodo to try out before I bought mine with them. People seem to not charge a whole lot of money on there, so I'm concerned that it wouldn't really make it worth while. Or is that not the case? Are there any other options? Any way to get in a network of larger productions that need Komodo's, or do they only go through the rental houses? Would love to hear anyones tips and techniques on renting out gear.

 

[Brian Timmons]

Hey John,

I admittedly never rented my gear out but I have rented gear from others on Share Grid and I do think it's an easy and viable platform.
If you're in a pretty busy production market that can definitely enhance the chances of your gear being rented.
I'm in the NJ/NYC area and Komodo is still trending quite high on Share Grid.

I've heard of camera owners hooking up with local camera/production rental houses to sub rent their cameras and that seems to work for some.

Whatever platform or method you use I would definitely make sure you have the equipment insured specifically to cover for renting to others.
Share Grid has some of this coverage as part of the platform but I don't know how thorough it is.

Athos insurance is a good place to start for getting proper rental insurance coverage.
https://www.athosinsurance.com

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[James Darren]

Athos is geared more towards the consumer photographer/videographer. Most people in the production world use Taylor & Taylor.

Keep in mind that it's different insurance coverage needed when you rent your gear out to someone else vs just having coverage when you keep it/use it.

Most policies will cover it being stolen from your home, car, business, etc but when you rent out your gear and the person renting it doesn't return it, it's usually not covered unless you specify it's being rented out. Of course this addition to the policy costs more.

Many owners of gear on share grid have been caught out by this.

 

[Brian Timmons]

Athos is geared more towards the consumer photographer/videographer. Most people in the production world use Taylor & Taylor.

Keep in mind that it's different insurance coverage needed when you rent your gear out to someone else vs just having coverage when you keep it/use it.

Most policies will cover it being stolen from your home, car, business, etc but when you rent out your gear and the person renting it doesn't return it, it's usually not covered unless you specify it's being rented out. Of course this addition to the policy costs more.

Many owners of gear on share grid have been caught out by this.

Agree with what you write except Athos being geared for consumers.
Many pros use them and they have the coverage and services that pros require. I’ve heard mostly good things when claims are made with them.

There could very well be better options and I would be happy to read about them.
Taylor & Taylor sounds promising.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[John Pike]

Athos is geared more towards the consumer photographer/videographer. Most people in the production world use Taylor & Taylor.

Keep in mind that it's different insurance coverage needed when you rent your gear out to someone else vs just having coverage when you keep it/use it.

Most policies will cover it being stolen from your home, car, business, etc but when you rent out your gear and the person renting it doesn't return it, it's usually not covered unless you specify it's being rented out. Of course this addition to the policy costs more.

Many owners of gear on share grid have been caught out by this.

When I’ve rented other peoples gear with Sharegrid, I was required to submit my certificate of insurance to them. (I actually work for a still camera company who lets me rent cameras for free so I carry a policy through insure my equipment). In the instance of someone not returning or stealing the item, wouldn’t I then contact their insurance?

 

[James Darren]

In the instance of someone not returning or stealing the item, wouldn't I then contact their insurance?

You could try, except that the person who rented/stole the item is almost certainly using a fake ID, fake insurance or an insurance policy under someone else's name that they're not authorized to use.

Even rental houses who do rental transactions daily occasionally get caught out, which is why they have their own rental house insurance which covers fraud as it's not classed as theft since you gave them the gear. It really is crazy.

I'm hoping this info saves someone for being caught out as many people think they're safe renting their gear on sharegrid which isn't always the case.

 

[Brian Timmons]

they didnt cover it because the policy covered "everything else too like camera."

Thanks for the story Andrew.
Did they reason that only gear that matches the description of a camera was covered in your policy?

Who are using now to cover your equipment insurance?

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[M Harvey]

Even rental houses who do rental transactions daily occasionally get caught out, which is why they have their own rental house insurance which covers fraud as it's not classed as theft since you gave them the gear. It really is crazy.

I believe this exception is called (in insurance speak) “voluntary parting.” (The idea is that you voluntarily gave the item to someone, so it’s not theft.) Look for these words or ask your insurance rep about it when you’re figuring out your coverage. I believe some plans offer this as an add-on, and also that ShareGrid, Kitsplit, etc. may have newer policies that address the issue.

One basic thing you can do is check ID cards at pickup and confirm insurance (in advance) for any rental. I know it can feel awkward—like you’re saying “I don’t trust you”— but it helps make these rental systems safer.

Knocking on wood, but I’ve occasionally rented out equipment on sharegrid and sometimes rented from others, and it’s all gone fine. But I’d recommend you don’t rent out anything that you’ll stay up at night worrying over!

 

[James Darren]

I believe this exception is called (in insurance speak) "voluntary parting"

One basic thing you can do is check ID cards at pickup and confirm insurance (in advance) for any rental.

Yes that's the correct term, should've added that in my post.

It's almost always an add on, and it can be quite expensive. I do not believe Shargerid offers this coverage, nor can they guarantee the validity of insurance COI's or ID's being uploaded.

The person renting the item will most likely use a fake ID, ask for it to be shipped or have someone else pick it up for them.

 

[M Harvey]

Looks like Sharegrid and KitSplit both now have “Owner Guarantee” policies, which cover up to $20k in voluntary parting:

https://support.sharegrid.com/en/articles/3282176-sharegrid-owner-guarantee

https://kitsplit.com/owner-guarantee

These aren’t insurance policies, but company policies. And, as James notes, it doesn’t cover if the renter doesn’t pick up in person (so you can check ID) or if the item is shipped. And $20k of course covers most Komodo packages, but maybe not much else.

 

[James Darren]

And, as James notes, it doesn't cover if the renter doesn't pick up in person

Unfortunately it's a policy covered by Athos and they are far from great, as Andrew posted out above.

The other problem is most rentals are picked up by a PA or van/truck driver and that immediately excludes you from Sharegrid's insurance program.

You really should get your own insurance if you decide to use Sharegrid.

 

[Björn Benckert]

My advice would be to contact a big good rental house in your area and see if they are interested in listing it for you with a 50/50 split or such and they cover insurance and everything else. But yes Komodos tend to have very low rental rates and rents more as a speciality cam / not A cam so not so easy to bank on.

 

[Brian Timmons]

Following up on this thread.
Putting this out their for a real world experience taken from a conversation with a fellow filmmaker.

I recently had to rent some CFAST cards off of Sharegrid for a shoot.
The person I rented from (the fellow filmmaker) detailed a situation where their Komodo package was stolen
through a Sharegrid rental and the subsequent fallout.

It seems that the camera was rented by a Sharegrid member but potentially
stolen on set by a crew member.

There is some haziness in the story as it seems that the identity of the person that rented
the equipment could not be verified since the person renting out the gear did not take a photo of the
renter's driver's license.
As a result this caused some issues with insurance.

TBH, I always thought Sharegrid would have this info already but from what I gathered from the conversation
insurance needs more proof (like a photo ID taken at time of rental) establishing that a person actually rented gear.


There was back and forth but it seems that the built in Sharegrid insurance ultimately covered the loss.

The person mentioned a few things they would have done differently regarding the rental and their insurance coverage.

1- Always take a photo of the Driver's license or ID to document the identity of the renter.

2- Make sure to include the full value of the camera package including all accessories and costs like taxes and shipping for it
to be included in the claim payout. People tend to just include the cost of the body and call it a day which is, of course, a mistake.

3- It's a good idea to include coverage for lost income for the duration that the stolen equipment is out until a replacement arrives. The renter lost several jobs for the months they had no camera.

While the renter did get another Komodo, they also said they ultimately lost over $3000 dollars from not handling the issues stated above.

I may have some details wrong but this is the gist of what was said in the conversation.

Lessons learned.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Michael Hastings]

I had Athos, paid them over and over, then th eone itme I needed them (slipped and broke a lens), they didnt cover it because the policy covered "everything else too like camera."

I guess thats what an insirance company does, take your money then leave you having when you need them. Or maybe its just Athos.

Don't have time to get farther into it but wasn't happy with how Athos handled my insurance claim on a BMD Ursa Mini Pro. Had loaned to a friend and long time associate for some tests when stolen yet would not cover because not rented with a rental contract even though I had purchased all of the various insurance options they offered - rental, worldwide all risk (I do underwater), unlocked car, etc. Athos is just the agent - final determination is by whoever underwrites the policy but I don't feel like Athos went to bat for me and would not use again.

Thought about suing but that is a difficult process with out of state companies and not a slam dunk so just had to write it off - but left a very bad taste. Ultimately the insurance company will use any out they can come up with. I know from friends' experience years ago that one of the local entertainment insurance agencies pushed back hard for one of their clients after rejection and eventually the company came through. Agencies have a certain amount of power (remember they are the salespeople - no sales, no income, no profits) in pressing on borderline cases - and doesn't seem like Athos did much for my case. Online purchase is handy but sometimes having a personal relationship with your agent can help.

 

[Brian Timmons]

Revisiting this thread.
RED KOMODO has consistently been one of the top searched and rented cameras on Sharegrid for the past couple of years (it was released late 2020).
https://insights.sharegrid.com

I've seen V-Raptor packages renting for below $500 so a bit surprised it's not more popular.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[Björn Benckert]

Following up on this thread.
Putting this out their for a real world experience taken from a conversation with a fellow filmmaker.

I recently had to rent some CFAST cards off of Sharegrid for a shoot.
The person I rented from (the fellow filmmaker) detailed a situation where their Komodo package was stolen
through a Sharegrid rental and the subsequent fallout.

It seems that the camera was rented by a Sharegrid member but potentially
stolen on set by a crew member.

There is some haziness in the story as it seems that the identity of the person that rented
the equipment could not be verified since the person renting out the gear did not take a photo of the
renter's driver's license.
As a result this caused some issues with insurance.

TBH, I always thought Sharegrid would have this info already but from what I gathered from the conversation
insurance needs more proof (like a photo ID taken at time of rental) establishing that a person actually rented gear.


There was back and forth but it seems that the built in Sharegrid insurance ultimately covered the loss.

The person mentioned a few things they would have done differently regarding the rental and their insurance coverage.

1- Always take a photo of the Driver's license or ID to document the identity of the renter.

2- Make sure to include the full value of the camera package including all accessories and costs like taxes and shipping for it
to be included in the claim payout. People tend to just include the cost of the body and call it a day which is, of course, a mistake.

3- It's a good idea to include coverage for lost income for the duration that the stolen equipment is out until a replacement arrives. The renter lost several jobs for the months they had no camera.

While the renter did get another Komodo, they also said they ultimately lost over $3000 dollars from not handling the issues stated above.

I may have some details wrong but this is the gist of what was said in the conversation.

Lessons learned.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

Its very common way of stealing things. Rent it and then claim that you where robbed of the items. My Dragon package was lost that way, The same guy rented gear in pretty much every rental place in sweden right after the incident... and he must have had really bad luck because every time he got robbed of all the stuff he rented. And yes as long as he sticks to that story "I got robbed..again" story, then the police can't do shit. They can not even mention that he is involved in several other incidents where rental gear got stolen that I had to find out by myself by calling oround to the local rental places just to have them tell me he came by their office as well.


So yes be careful. Renting out to somebody that is just a private person / one man band kind of thing that you do not know personally, is a very bad idea. Only rent to bigger production companies and DP/camera opperatiors that you know well.