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Rental Price £250 for full package?

A

Adam Levins

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I have been looking into the rental price of the RED as I sometimes get work where I can stipulate what kit we use and play with budgets a bit.

ProKit in the UK will be renting a full HD Kit out for £250 +VAT a day

http://www.prokit.co.uk/product.php?id=252

This price includes a RED drive, a Basic RED zoom, EVF and LCD

Seems Cheap....

What are people paying in the US at the moment as a day rate?

I guess prices will drop in the summer when more cameras are around but still it does seem cheaper than I though it would be makes me think twice about dropping 30k on a setup when I can rent (and not have to worry about the problems incurred with owning).

Is this pricing off the mark or do you fine folks think this is what we can expect in future?
 
lets just say L250 is equal to 500 US ...

RED with RED lens, matt box , FF, production pack , matt , LCD , tripod -the lowest i've heard is $750 day ...

rates here go from 750-2200 day...
 
That's very cheap - a full kit from the rental houses we've been talking to is around £1,200 - £1400, with a basic kit (no lenses!) @ £600 or so.

Ours will be going out (as an indie rental, but backed by a larger rental co) @ £500 p.d. with a moderately fully-featured shooting kit and a good set of Nikkor primes...
 
There will be a lot of cameras on the market by the end of the year and I think rates will drop, but I advise all owners to think carefully about your pricing structure. In heavily saturated markets it will be tempting to practically give away the camera just to get it rented but it's bad business for the industry in my opinion. It makes some producers feel like they can get this camera for practically nothing and that won't help you sustain business and put food on the table. I think competitive pricing is fine but going way below the threshold and cutting people's throats is a bit much.

At the end of the day, it helps to have established clients because they know what they get with you and if they are happy with what you bring to the table they will probably pay your rates if they are fair.

People are free to charge whatever they want to rent their camera. I think it will be best practice to charge reasonable money, that's my only gripe. A rate that speaks professional.

Steve
 
Hi Adam,

I've just checked out the Prokit link. What they are offering is not a rentable package in my opinion. 1 red drive??? What about a CF module, CF Cards, power options, mounting options etc or are they all add-ons? How much for a useable kit? I think that not everyone will package the same to begin with but I think you get what you pay for. I agree with Bassam; £400 - £500 per day dry hire for a camera kit seems fair (ex lenses).
 
Steve Sanacore said:
I would think the rental price could be based on a similar 35mm film camera price - like say an ARRI 235 or 435 body plus lenses. Or maybe it should be priced on par with the ARRI D20 or SONY 900?
Click to expand...

Arri 435 Kit - £1200 p/d
D20 Kit - £2000 p/d
F900R Kit - £750 p/d

Which of these prices did you have in mind?
 
K.Berlin said:
2% of investment per day. this is my choice
Click to expand...

Finally someone who's reasonable!!!


What will happen if people realize they're paying 10%/day of the actual price and they have it for 4 days?

I agree that the RED should be 2-2.5% of investment price (that's body only). The rest of the gear is between that and 1%, depending on shelf life.

The RED camera is most probably going to develope very fast (at least it looks like it) and my guess is that we're very soon investing in RED TWO. Therefor we need to get it paid of fairly quickly, but that's body only, accessories we can hopefully use for a longer period.


Fred
 
I personally dont have a major issue with their pricing point. Let them hire out at that if they think theyll make a decent profit.

Having talked to one or two prokit guys at the broadcast convention, I get the feeling they see the red as more of a broadcast camera (hence the little setup and accessories they offer)... i wonder if they've even thought of arri MBs and FFs, proper lenses, cine sticks and oconnor heads etc? I appreciate these thoughts are purely speculative though, hopefully those guys will chime in on their pricing strategy.

Fair play to them though if they can make a profit on their cams at this rate.. they will have 5 of them after all.

EDIT: just saw on their website, £190/day for DodgyBeta. £250/day for red is funny by comparison!
 
Steve Sanacore said:
I would think the rental price could be based on a similar 35mm film camera price - like with the ARRI D20 or SONY 900?
Click to expand...

Stephen Webb said:
D20 Kit - £2000 p/d


Which of these prices did you have in mind?
Click to expand...
I THINK RED is much better choice or D20 it shouldent be less than it's rate
or something near of it .:huh: :clown2:
so go betwwen 600-1000 p/d
 
weirdcrew said:
Finally someone who's reasonable!!!

What will happen if people realize they're paying 10%/day of the actual price and they have it for 4 days?

I agree that the RED should be 2-2.5% of investment price (that's body only). The rest of the gear is between that and 1%, depending on shelf life.

The RED camera is most probably going to develope very fast (at least it looks like it) and my guess is that we're very soon investing in RED TWO. Therefor we need to get it paid of fairly quickly, but that's body only, accessories we can hopefully use for a longer period.
Fred
Click to expand...

Exactly, that's what I think.

In 3 years or so REDOne will be overtaken by its successor or competitors. This justifies 2%. PL glass lasts much longer, certain lenses are already 20 -30 years old and still very valuable (eg. Zeiss Super Speeds MKII) and will surely make it another decade or two. 1% is reasonable here.

Renting fees depend also highly on the service. A commercial production needs a bullet proved camera kit with all the lenses the DOP ordered. A second body must be accessible any time, secure DITing is compulsory, etc... Time is money here, clients must be served; therefore, camera rental budget is considerably higher.

An indie production wants it cheap and will go with still lenses (nothing against still lenses quality wise...)

Although the same camera different horses for courses,

Hans
 
K.Berlin said:
my set up will cost 26 k pounds
Click to expand...

I'd have thought £500 p/d would be a perfectly reasonable price, if that's the kind of figure you're considering.

The pricing at the moment in the UK does swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. I know of places that are hiring the body only for >£600 p/d, and others (obviously ProKit!) the entire kit for £250 p/d.

There are no hard-and-fast rules for how you price your camera. All I'd suggest is "know your market" - it's entirely possible that both of the above will be successful if these companies have judges their respective markets correctly.
 
weirdcrew said:
What will happen if people realize they're paying 10%/day of the actual price and they have it for 4 days?

Fred
Click to expand...

i think 2 % for the body, drive, cfmodule and cf cards is good

lenses, nd filters, MB and FF could be 1-1,5 %.

But there is not just the ROI, there are the insurance,the bills, support and the profit you gotta have to make.

And there will be different prices for diffenrent clients for sure.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Exactly, that's what I think.

In 3 years or so REDOne will be overtaken by its successor or competitors. This justifies 2%. PL glass lasts much longer, certain lenses are already 20 -30 years old and still very valuable (eg. Zeiss Super Speeds MKII) and will surely make it another decade or two. 1% is reasonable here.

Renting fees depend also highly on the service. A commercial production needs a bullet proved camera kit with all the lenses the DOP ordered. A second body must be accessible any time, secure DITing is compulsory, etc... Time is money here, clients must be served; therefore, camera rental budget is considerably higher.

An indie production wants it cheap and will go with still lenses (nothing against still lenses quality wise...)

Although the same camera different horses for courses,

Hans
Click to expand...

K.Berlin said:
i think 2 % for the body, drive, cfmodule and cf cards is good

lenses, nd filters, MB and FF could be 1-1,5 %.

But there is not just the ROI, there are the insurance,the bills, support and the profit you gotta have to make.

And there will be different prices for diffenrent clients for sure.
Click to expand...

I think we're all on the same page here. So nice for a change :) .

In the beginning when it's new prices can be higher because we can excuse with the fact that you "save on film stock" but by the middle of this year there will be almost 4000 cameras out there.

I hate the fact that I wasn't one of the 1st one hundred because I most probably would have earned the money back by now, but now I think it's time to be realistic. We don't want to scare people away and producers are not stupid (some of them may be but not all :w00t: ).

fred
 
Just a sidenote -

I find it interesting reading a thread like this. I get the impression that there will be many new "rental houses" entering the market based on the RED camera. The thing is: All the rental houses that serve the extisting market already will rent out RED cameras as well, sooner or later. So, either there will be a big boom of new films or big competition on camera rentals.

Which leads to the finding that talking about rental fees is pure academic. Newbies will dump into the market otherwise they don't get jobs. The established rental houses consider RED as a cheap 35mm body that fits perfectly to all the exsiting accessories they already have. Hardly a big investment for them.

Either way a RED body will be rented out for that what it is a 17.500k Dollar investment.

I am sure there will be many REDs on ebay.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
An indie production wants it cheap and will go with still lenses (nothing against still lenses quality wise...),

Hans
Click to expand...

Do you mean an Indie feature?

Most if the low budgets I have worked on use good lenses and I would never use a set of still lenses on a feature.

Even a low budget feature is in a league to pay for a good set of lenses. if they didn't have that how could they pay for the skilled personal?

I guess it depends on how little money they want to spend but all things considered the lenses have to be the least of there worries finacially.
 
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