rental etiquette/procedures

[Andrae Palmer]

Would you RED One owners take next day rental jobs from new clients (complete strangers) and if so what are your requirements? In South Florida I get a lot of these last minute requests and with so many things that can go wrong I was wondering what you guys do to mitigate getting screwed. Do you require payment upfront (cashiers check, cash, check), turn down those jobs, etc? I know the local established rental companies won't take those jobs at all, due to having a 7 day in advance notice requirement (to verify insurance certificate, credit, etc.). As a owner/operator I'm very reluctant to accept them myself... unless I come with the gear and I get paid upfront by cashiers check or cash.

 

[ericyoung]

Like you said for such short notice, little trust situations - wet hire only, PROOF of insurance, at least part payment upfront. Otherwise, walk away.

Having said that, if your instincts are good (I've learnt to trust mine), don't be afraid to take a calculated risk with the insurance and the part payment (making sure they know you are doing them a favour, and expect a return) - only you know what your comfort level is!

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Like you said for such short notice, little trust situations - wet hire only, PROOF of insurance, at least part payment upfront. Otherwise, walk away.

Having said that, if your instincts are good (I've learnt to trust mine), don't be afraid to take a calculated risk with the insurance and the part payment (making sure they know you are doing them a favour, and expect a return) - only you know what your comfort level is!

How do you take the payment... do you ever accept checks (for next day jobs)? Also for the insurance part what if you lock yourself in (or give the appearance of committing) and they send the insurance that evening (after business hours)... how do you verify the insurance? I always make sure to say nothing is locked in on the phone just to make sure that they know I'm not committed until all goes through. I would hate someone to say that I ruined their job by not giving them enough time to acquire a camera elsewhere.

 

[Greg M]

its the nature of the beast. Establish procedures and stick with them.

We require Certs, Credit Card, ID, etc and triple check all to be sure they aren't fake. If you dont accept Credit Cards, you shouldnt be in Rental biz. We charge the full rental amount + put a CC hold on the full amount of Insurance Deductible. We also call insurance company to verify and do web search to verify legitimacy of same.

We also photocopy all drivers licenses and have a full rental agreement. If anyone refuses to comply with all this we refuse service.

 

[Greg M]

How do you take the payment... do you ever accept checks? Also for the insurance part what if you lock yourself in (or give the appearance of committing) and they send the insurance that evening... how do you verify the insurance?

No tickey, no washey. If they cant provide insurance cert in time refuse the rental. Its not your problem that they were not timely...its their problem and obligation. Be tough and stand your ground.

I would hate someone to say that I ruined their job by not giving them enough time to acquire a camera elsewhere.

You cant worry about this, your primary concern is to protect your interests. If they are so unorganized that they cant get contracts and certs to you on time, its their own problem. NO EXCEPTIONS.

I have no compassion for unorganized producers.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Digitalfx & ericyoung,

Thanks for your responses... now I know i'm on the right track. What is the cut off time for insurance that you guys go by?

 

[Jaime Vallés]

In addition to photocopy of the driver's license, make sure you take a still photo of the person doing the rental. If they don't agree to the pic, they're up to no good.

 

[Adil Lahoulou]

In addition to photocopy of the driver's license, make sure you take a still photo of the person doing the rental. If they don't agree to the pic, they're up to no good.

Agreed. Short notice rentals should be viewed with skepticism. Cameras have been stolen with valid certs and upfront payments.

 

[Bob Gruen]

As an Owner / Operator I would think that you are always part of the package.

I'd also want to understand the shoot. If it is something in public, like a fashion show or shooting a CEO in an office building fine, but if its out in the boondocks somewhere I think my internal alarms might go off.

Red Ones are cinema cameras, and anything you'd shoot with them should be well organized, ie: a film or high dollar commercial. You are not going to get a call today for a shoot tomorrow; and few things worth doing will be shot in a single day.

Just my 2 cents...

Bob

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

I would send a PA out for free with every rental.
If the renters object then forget it....
Having a $100 per day PA on set watching your gear is the best & cheapest
insurance you can buy.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I definitely view short/next day notice rentals with skepticism, hence why posting on here to get opinions from others. I've turned down every next day rental job so far. Usually they want to send the insurance certificate too late in the day and they claim to be so busy that they don't have the time to get a cashiers check or can't pay by cash (I require this for next day jobs). I've heard everything from you guys can "trust" us... we do big money productions and can get you regular work, etc. I'm usually thinking if they do big money work why are they calling me for a next day job? There are many professional rental houses in South Florida with way more gear than what I own.

 

[ericyoung]

You've answered your own question.

The fact that you are in doubt should ring alarm bells.

Also second the high res full face and full length pics of unknown prospective clients - there's been too many recent thefts by well dressed legit looking crooks with fake insurance and ID.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

I have a feeling that many of the people calling me for next day rentals are not thieves. The problem is that they want me to accommodate them and to trust them. I would love to make the extra money but not while taking a risk. Currently I do not accept credit cards and will look into getting this up and running ASAP. I do believe that I'm reasonable by asking for cashiers check or cash for rush jobs... heck I'll even take CC payments via paypal. I always go out on jobs with 2 people... I'm not so much worried about the theft part... more the bounce check circle jerk/lack of insurance.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

I've run into the same problem, Andrae. I'm just a little guy with a lot to lose. Some "producers" scoff at my request for a security deposit (equal to the amount of the insurance deductible) on a rental that is oftentimes less than the deposit/deductible. I try to explain to them that, yes, it may appear a bit inconvenient that I ask them to provide me with a check to the tune of $2500 when the total rental is only $1000-1500, but that doesn't change the fact that they will be handling some $50k worth of gear.

It's a tough position to be in because they could go elsewhere...plenty of people in my area that may succumb to their last-minute and somewhat ridiculous demands, and for less. True, I could use the business, but at what cost in the end? If I want to show them how far I am willing to accommodate them, I will personally deliver the gear to set, having checked out the camera (at a last minute notice, no less), and will personally take the equipment back from set at the end of shooting (and in between I will provide camera support, so as to ensure that the shoot goes smoothly, at least insofar as the camera is concerned). I know it's not always possible to do this, but if I'm not available, I put someone I trust with my gear on the job. If that's not possible, well, then I refer them to someone else who may appreciate the work, and tell them I hope I can help them out sometime in the future (even if deep down I hope they'll never call again, because I know that it'll likely be more of a headache than a valuable customer).

Sometimes, missing these kinds of jobs isn't a loss at all, you know? Anyway, it sounds like you've got your head in the right place. I know how it feels to want to help someone out, even if you don't really know them, but you've got to put your own best interests first, no question about it.

Thanks DigitalFX and others for the business pep-talk.

Cheers,
Clint

 

[Greg M]

Red Ones are cinema cameras, and anything you'd shoot with them should be well organized, ie: a film or high dollar commercial. You are not going to get a call today for a shoot tomorrow; and few things worth doing will be shot in a single day.

Just my 2 cents...

Bob

You would think so Bob, but that's simply not the case. 75% of the rental calls we get are last minute.

 

[david_winters]

You would think so Bob, but that's simply not the case. 75% of the rental calls we get are last minute.

Guilty. I'm often calling around looking for aks, another lens, whatever - the day of the shoot. Things change, gear doesn't arrive in time, I simply overlooked something on the equipment order.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Guilty. I'm often calling around looking for aks, another lens, whatever - the day of the shoot. Things change, gear doesn't arrive in time, I simply overlooked something on the equipment order.

It's understandable needing a rush rental... what is not understandable is how some people want you to trust them when you have no prior working relationship with them. The way I look at it, don't bring me a check when you are a new customer with a rush job. Being a owner/operator I'll take a risk even on the insurance by covering it myself... but I want to be paid up front via cash/cashiers check/credit card for all this... no net 20/30 unless I know you and we are cool.

 

[david_winters]

It's understandable needing a rush rental... what is not understandable is how some people want you to trust them when you have no prior working relationship with them. The way I look at it, don't bring me a check when you are a new customer with a rush job. Being a owner/operator I'll take a risk even on the insurance by covering it myself... but I want to be paid up front via cash/cashiers check/credit card for all this... no net 20/30 unless I know you and we are cool.

Hey Andrae,

I agree with you. Credit card and send someone out to keep an eye on the gear, you can spin it as a value add to the customer. I run a production company and many of our (production) customers pay with credit card. All the "big" customers are NET30+, but the little and new little customers are CC, it's the only way to go.

If they want to pay with biz/personal check, no problem, ding the card and refund when this check clears. We do this all the time.

 

[Felix K.]

From a customer's point of view:

I organized a student film production (not film students, more or less everything else but film students), so you could say we were far from professional or even trained to produce a short. But we would NEVER even have dreamt about calling a day upfront about a whole camera set-up! I mean, come on? Pre-production anyone?
Maybe someone forgot to order a tripod or enough batteries which you have to get a day before but a whole camera set? Very fishy!

However if it happened (DP with his own equipment walked out in the last minute or something like that) you should expect your customers to do everything possible to respect your rules. If they can't: bad luck. They'll have to learn the hard way...
Just my 2c...