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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDRAY Comments

Tired Stuart...? :-)

Stuart English said:
Prepare to be surprised... at 2.5MB/s its less than 10GB per hour for 4K .RED footage, approx 20% of your 100GB.
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10gb is usually kinda around almost 10% of 100gb...

Looking foreward to see this!

G
 
Jon Farhat said:
We built ODEMAX exclusively for REDray. We have no plans to support desktop or mobile playback. We believe anyone can do that. ODEMAX is about the big screen, unparalleled image quality and true protection for the Channel Owner with uncrackable security. We have set out to use the concept of DRM to build direct relationships between creators and viewers. D"R"M should be a bill-of-rights for this relationship, not an evil empire's excuse to protect their existence. No, REDray and ODEMAX were made for each other. Let the users demand exclusivity, not the middlemen.
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As an end user interested in highest quality movie watching, this whole REDray + ODEMAX system sounds very interesting to me. I do have 2 worries about the DRM, though. Generally, I don't like the "rent" model, I like to buy/own my favorite movies and store them on a big NAS. So here are my biggest worries:

(1) The internal 1GB harddisk might be useful for caching the downloads. But there's no way it's anywhere near big enough for building a movie collection. No single harddisk is likely to be ever big enough for that. Also it's not protected from hardware failure (e.g. RAID) in any way, so it could break down and lose all data. So will RR support playing back DRM protected movies from my own (self-built) NAS?

(2) With DVD and Blu-Ray I have the guarantee that I will be able to playback the movies "forever". There's no danger whatsoever of me ever losing this ability (at least as long as I rip the movies and back them up properly). Let's imagine ODEMAX takes off and I buy maybe 500 movies and store them on my NAS. Let's further imagine that a few years later for whatever funny reason ODEMAX goes bye-bye. What would happen to the movies I bought in that case? Would I still be able to play them back, even though the ODEMAX network is gone? Or is an online connection necessary for playback, even if the movies are fully bought, downloaded and stored on my NAS? I don't see me investing big bugs into a system if I have to fear that my new-bought movie collection may disappear into thin air at some point in the future.

Thanks!
 
Mathias Rauen said:
As an end user interested in highest quality movie watching, this whole REDray + ODEMAX system sounds very interesting to me. I do have 2 worries about the DRM, though. Generally, I don't like the "rent" model, I like to buy/own my favorite movies and store them on a big NAS. So here are my biggest worries:

(1) The internal 1GB harddisk might be useful for caching the downloads. But there's no way it's anywhere near big enough for building a movie collection. No single harddisk is likely to be ever big enough for that. Also it's not protected from hardware failure (e.g. RAID) in any way, so it could break down and lose all data. So will RR support playing back DRM protected movies from my own (self-built) NAS?
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The player would certainly accept external storage and network storage. Whether you'll be able to play DRM protected media over them I'm not sure, but fairly likely. It would not be suprising if the ODEMAX system allowed re-downloads. This is increasingly common thses days, so would be a suprise to see it ommitted.

Mathias Rauen said:
(2) With DVD and Blu-Ray I have the guarantee that I will be able to playback the movies "forever". There's no danger whatsoever of me ever losing this ability (at least as long as I rip the movies and back them up properly). Let's imagine ODEMAX takes off and I buy maybe 500 movies and store them on my NAS. Let's further imagine that a few years later for whatever funny reason ODEMAX goes bye-bye. What would happen to the movies I bought in that case? Would I still be able to play them back, even though the ODEMAX network is gone? Or is an online connection necessary for playback, even if the movies are fully bought, downloaded and stored on my NAS? I don't see me investing big bugs into a system if I have to fear that my new-bought movie collection may disappear into thin air at some point in the future.

Thanks!
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So wait DVDs and blurays last forever if you defeat the DRM and transfer them onto other storage? And this wont become possible with .REDs at any point? In the unlikely even that ODEMAX DRM is undefeted at this point (Invincible DRM claims are ten a penny all have failed eventually). What if theres a fire in your house and burns that NAS and melts the disks?

More details on the DRM would be nice (thoguh the titbit we have implies that while its offreed as part of the service its far from compulsary fr the content maker to add).
 
As most films are still finished in 2k it would be good to hear what solutions Red has for finishing in 4k and encoding to the .Red format.
DPX and OpenEXR are the formats of choice for post finishing and as much as everyone talks about working in R3D its not practical when VFX work is done.

Can we expect to see a cheaper faster more powerful Red Rocket?
One that would encode to .RED files?
One that would allow you to render to .R3D?
 
Jarred Land said:
Wow.. what a goofball. Your posts were for the most part wrong and i love that you use wikipedia for your facts but that last line took the cake.

Yeah.. a clip that was compressed with H.264 for the web is exactly what we are doing for... you got us. We developed our own custom compression ASIC for REDRAY just to fuck with you guys.. it doesn't really do anything.. really we are just exporting .mp4 clips out of quicktime player and renaming them to .RED.

My o my if you are really a professional "compressionist" I would hate to be one of your customers.
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HAHA that made me actually laugh out loud.
 
Bob Gundu said:
Does TIFF and DPX require licensing like QT does?
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Don't think so.

I can se the quality argument for tiff, dpx (and exr). But I can also see why a non-qt approach could be very limiting. Even if theyblimited the qt "accepted formats" to be only prores 4444, the userbase would be manyfolded.

Think Alexa sourced material and just about 90% of the RED userbase...
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
QuickTime is the proverbial double edged sword; ubiquitous/widely supported but a gamma shadowboxer.

Cheers - #19
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I know, for sure... :-)

But that is controllable with tested workflows.

And it is not unimpossible to set up workflows with quicktime that work.

I am not a huge fan, really. I dig exr's (which I cannot see any mention of...)

But as I work in both ends of the scale, I can really see the use of quictimes...
 
Filling the container

Filling the container

Maybe I missed it, but would like to know how various aspect ratios are handled. Just a lot of padding? Sort of a "here's a 4096 by 2160 container, fill it how you like"? Seems like it would be the easiest to deal with assuming that the compressor is smart enough to describe the padded area with minimal data load.

Cheers - #19
 
I am a video enthusist with a very high end 1080P 3 chip DLP projector, I am looking forward to what I perceive to be better than Bluray content even at 1080P. I am truly hopefull that Odemax is able to secure content from all the major studios. 12 bit 4:2:2 color is what I have been waiting for.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Don't think so.

I can se the quality argument for tiff, dpx (and exr). But I can also see why a non-qt approach could be very limiting. Even if theyblimited the qt "accepted formats" to be only prores 4444, the userbase would be manyfolded.

Think Alexa sourced material and just about 90% of the RED userbase...
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And so those materials don't go out to DCP now?

Just export to TIFF or DPX .. same as you would for DCP.
 
Gunleik Groven said:
I dig exr's (which I cannot see any mention of...)
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EXRs are certainly useful within workflows, but for deliverable I would say they are not so useful. Unclamped float does not have any real meaning for a display device. The normal practice would be to pass through a display targeted LUT which compresses or clips values above 1.0. At this point EXRs have no benefit over TIFF or DPX. In fact in the 0-1 range a 16 bit TIFF or DPX has more precision than a 16 bit EXR.
 
A small request…

Since ODEMAX has such a deep and exclusive connection with REDRAY, I was wondering if you guys might consider giving Jon Farhat a “RED Team” tag on the forum so that when using the quick jump feature his important responses to ODEMAX related questions are included?

Thanks.
 
Its great that the .Red encoder will accept industry standard file formats for post production finishing.
How long will the encode take?
Is it a slow process that takes days to encode a film to .Red?

I can only guess that encoding to .Red will take a long time and isn't a real-time process.
Can we expect to see a revamped RedRocket that does .RED encoding in real-time?

2k film finishing is the norm and we have the tools that can handle 4k finishing but they are expensive and need to handle an awful lot of data compared to 2k that is why only a handful of films get finished in 4k.

But now with REDRay and ODEMAX the demand for a 4K finish is a real reality but how do we handle this data throughput without some help from something like a RedRocket to work in a native file format that is as good as OpenEXR that we can render VFX shot to and do the complete post in and still move files around quickly without grinding to a stand still.
 
From Jarred:


Jarred Land said:
The speed right now to compress to .RED files (via software) is pretty slow.. it is doing a shitload of calculations and Graeme's little pixies are working overtime to get the incredible image that it spits out.. we went quality over speed.

We are not sure where it will end up yet.. now that we have the image quality locked down they have just started on optimization and then being assisted by hardware.
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