REDCODE...

[Jannard]

How important has REDCODE been to the success of RED and unique to the industry?

Jim

 

[brett ogden]

Jim
I have not had the pleasure of using REDCODE on jobs but i did Test it @ NAB and it rocked!

Jim what would your answer be to your own Question , If i may ask.

 

[Christopher Probst]

What I'm very curious and excited about is seeing Dragon's color gamut and increased dynamic range coupled with Graeme's ever improving color science... That thought keeps me up at nights plotting images.

 

[Curran Giddens]

I was one of a few who had the uncompressed RAW output option on my original Red One order. But you easily convinced me that this option was not at all necessary. You were right, REDCODE rules!

 

[Sergio Perez]

Important to the point everyone else is copying.

 

[Dmitry Burenok]

REDCODE is important because it is only allows us to do non-destructive color timing at the front-end when data from sensor being interpret as an "actual image data". ANY other format re-encodes/calculates actual compressed image data to a new one to achieve desired "look", which means - massive loss of dynamic range, decreasing S/N rate and loosing effective resolution as well. REDCODE allows us to just READ data the way we want to get the best look. Everything else RE-WRITE already compressed and truncated data to get any other look.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'd say it's been extremely important. As it's developed over time and the adoption of utilizing it natively within 3rd party apps makes it insanely powerful. Being able to work at 4K, 5K, or any other REDCODE resolution without transcoding to an intermediate codec has been a game changer (not to mention a time saver). The flexible and variable compression ratios have been nice, but the fact that REDCODE scales so damn well between resolutions is utterly amazing. It holds up to sharpening very nicely as well without the artifacts found in other codecs out there. The fact that the color science has improved so much is also a nice really nice benefit.

Also the implementation and free distribution of RedCine-X Pro has been an incredible tool. Perform one light corrections, export stills, review takes, sync audio, export proxies, etc....

Metadata that can be shared all over the world, a format that is now widely adopted, and the ability to work "until the end" non-destructively. Yeah. Incredible.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

EPIC is here today. Tomorrow, you may replace it with LEGEND. Which will offer more Ks, more DR, and more everything for a lot less $ than what EPIC offers today. But it doesn't matter. It'll still simply be a tool that harnesses REDCODE.

REDCODE is your USP. REDCODE is what you are truly selling. REDCODE is the blood that runs through RED veins.

 

[Craig Weeding]

Great Question JIm


Redcode has been very critical for us to successfully shoot with 4 or 5 Epics and intercut them.


With Redcode we can shoot like film, use a light meter, check the histogram, and roll 4 or 5 Epics with out worry. Only because of Redcode.


To do multi camera production with any non raw format (All 4:2:2 formats) we would need to have cameras tethered to CCUs with Engineers painting the cameras and riding Iris. When the knees and clips are built in to the camera and baked in to the image, matching cameras is super critical.


With Redcode if one camera is 1/2 up or down it is not a problem, no curves are baked in. White balance off between cameras not problem, different Brand of Glass with different color cast not a problem. A bit of flare and high black levels not a problem.


Redcode is shooting digital Negative, anything other then raw is just Video, Video is limited and requires remote trucks or an Air-pack with all cameras tethered.




Redcode is 4:4:4 when colors get bright, the colors keep their color.
With component video formats 4:2:2, 4:2:0, 4:1:1, with colors get bright they turn to white.


I spent too many years with that limited video camera and a mess of cables and trucks of equipment.


Thank you Jim and RED for freeing us from the nightmare world of baked in video

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Redcode has been essential.

Simple as that.

That is not to say that it is totally without issues. There are compromises in all compressions. Redcode, too.

But anyone who have tried playing with say arriraw on a 4 year old laptop, know it is a no-go.

I have a hope, though, that it will be an option to go uncompressed with Dragon.

As you have mentioned, computingpower goes up and price of datastorage go down, and as long as there is some computingoverhead in redcode for the decompression, redcode - especially at + 4k, has some workflow issues, in addition to compression issues.

There are times and places for everything.
Redcode 28 wa ideal to get us going in 4k in 2008.
It simply made it possible to get out in volumes.

Likewise is 4k 8:1 what makes RED a practical option and alternative for small-time users these days.
And it looks great.

But the reason that some prefer to record the SDI tap for some shots, is related to compression ( not really issues - it is just how it works) in redcode,

and in shoots where red is directly competing with arri-RAW or uncompressed RAW of other flavours, where the storage is NOT an issue, it would be great to offer that option as well.

But REDcode is to me what made it all happen...

And then, stuff evolves

 

[Craig Weeding]

Gunleik


I agree less compression is better, that is why we just took delivery of four 514GB cards


I have a hard time believing that anyone would record the 1920 x 1080, 8bit 4:4:4 or 10bit 4:2:2 out of the SDI output of an Epic instead of using the 16bit 3:1 Redcode at 5K and claim they are doing it for better quality because of compression. Resolution out of the SDI is compressed more then 4:1, The dynamic range is compressed from 16bits to 8bits or 10bits
The wavelet compression of redcode is great in comparison


With the new 512GB cards 3:1 is practical for even long takes. I have yet to see any noticeable compression artifacts at 3:1

 

[Gunleik Groven]

3:1 is great. I use it all the time!

Love it, and it personally fits my needs...

There are occations I have seen, and exemplified by others here, though, when for 1080 delivery in lowlight situations, you get a cleaner image out of the sdi, as the signal seems to go there pre compression.

Personally, I love redcode. It is what makes me personally capable of working with 5k images. I guess that goes for many...

What I am saying that for productions where ARRI-raw or sony raw is a viable option, it would be good to be able to offer uncompressed, too. The uncompressed raw files are huge, but actually need less processing power, as there is no de-compression/unpacking overhead in the processing. If you havethe throughput, they are reallyvery smoothto work with. (My guess is that 90% of RED owners doNOT have access to that kind of throughput, so this in no way an argument to not offer the compression settings...)

But as RED is competing with uncompressed options in the high-end segment, I do-now more than ever- think that uncompressed is where it is at. After playing with different formats.

ARRI/sony made it (too?) simple for the users to understand.
Compressed prores/whatever or uncompressed.

I love the options RED give us. I just think it would be good to offer uncompressed to compete on equal terms in the segment that really can afford it...

Now... PJ shooting the hobbit etc are compelling arguments for the oposite.
I just know that practically that doesn't sink with a lot of producers. Not at least because one has to factor in the allmost unreal resources he has to maximise whatever tool he chooses to use...

 

[Adam Johnson]

Put it this way. I couldn't imagine anything else! Uncompressed RAW like the competitors use seems like a wasteful workflow and a total waste of precious hard drive space!

 

[Mike Seymour]

Red code .r3d is not just an issue of compression, not just an issue of latitude - but those are very important.

The Red Raw movement - and it started a movement was significant as it lead to a world of understanding about making better images. In a very real sense we moved from Jpeg to .CR2 if we compare it to stills, but even more than that, we opened up the community to Colorspace, color management, debayering, gamma, scene linear responses in a way that is hard to understand. The RED companies move to saying - hey we are not putting out a new standard - we are putting out a way to work with the digital negative is perhaps the single biggest contribution the company made to the industry.

Instead of offering another standard implementation or another standard for other to adopt, it opened the camera market to advanced digital workflows. For this I will be forever grateful. Only now looking back - can we see that small tent in the south hall of NAB as ground zero on the current age of digital cinematography. I know I was attracted by price but I stayed for workflow.

Mike

 

[Ketch Rossi]

How important has REDCODE been to the success of RED and unique to the industry?

Jim

That question is answered easily by measuring the success that RED cameras have been enjoying since their first release with the R1, and gotten better, much better with the EPIC and new lower Compression, so I would say definitely very Important.

Of course is not only about the Compression, which it is, but it is about what it has allowed to do, by lowering the demand on Hard Drives for storage, and on Computer for Processing, yet preserving an absolutely eye popping beautiful very high resolution image.


LOVE REDCODE...

 

[Timur Civan]

Lets put it like this... For 1080 delivery, 4kHD @ 8:1 is smaller than the prores I transcode too, despite being 5x the information.... That's rather amazing. Did a test shoot on the f65, its raw uncompressed, is 12gig a min. It's raw lite is similar in size to red code 5:1 which is pretty big. I can take r3d down to 10:1 if I need to with little pain in post. That's amazing.

 

[Adam Beck]

Red code .r3d is not just an issue of compression, not just an issue of latitude - but those are very important.

The Red Raw movement - and it started a movement was significant as it lead to a world of understanding about making better images. In a very real sense we moved from Jpeg to .CR2 if we compare it to stills, but even more than that, we opened up the community to Colorspace, color management, debayering, gamma, scene linear responses in a way that is hard to understand. The RED companies move to saying - hey we are not putting out a new standard - we are putting out a way to work with the digital negative is perhaps the single biggest contribution the company made to the industry.

Instead of offering another standard implementation or another standard for other to adopt, it opened the camera market to advanced digital workflows. For this I will be forever grateful. Only now looking back - can we see that small tent in the south hall of NAB as ground zero on the current age of digital cinematography. I know I was attracted by price but I stayed for workflow.

Mike

Mike nailed it!

Redcode put the digital in cinema.

 

[Brandon J.F.]

How important has REDCODE been to the success of RED and unique to the industry?

Jim

I think it's one of the most important things. It makes working with raw video manageable.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Red code .r3d is not just an issue of compression, not just an issue of latitude - but those are very important.

The Red Raw movement - and it started a movement was significant as it lead to a world of understanding about making better images. In a very real sense we moved from Jpeg to .CR2 if we compare it to stills, but even more than that, we opened up the community to Colorspace, color management, debayering, gamma, scene linear responses in a way that is hard to understand. The RED companies move to saying - hey we are not putting out a new standard - we are putting out a way to work with the digital negative is perhaps the single biggest contribution the company made to the industry.

Instead of offering another standard implementation or another standard for other to adopt, it opened the camera market to advanced digital workflows. For this I will be forever grateful. Only now looking back - can we see that small tent in the south hall of NAB as ground zero on the current age of digital cinematography. I know I was attracted by price but I stayed for workflow.

Mike

Me too. Well said.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Lets put it like this... For 1080 delivery, 4kHD @ 8:1 is smaller than the prores I transcode too, despite being 5x the information.... That's rather amazing. Did a test shoot on the f65, its raw uncompressed, is 12gig a min. It's raw lite is similar in size to red code 5:1 which is pretty big. I can take r3d down to 10:1 if I need to with little pain in post. That's amazing.

12 Gigs a minute is starting to be rather unwieldy, even on a large budget, and impossible on a small prod.